BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[bnjrob]

Well Beekissed, I feel anything but challenged when someone Questions me or what I have going on with chickens. I have OCD ( obsessive chicken disorder ) also! But in Mr. jensons case, if he would have recognized the 2 breeds I mentioned for the cross, based on his own intellect and chicken experience, he could see the value and gain to be had. Or he could have stated there wasnt really that much to gain using those 2 breeds. He didnt have to run me through the mill with all the why questions, but he did. Most mentors either encourage you or discouage your efforts when you ask for their expertise. But they all pose the same questions of what it is your looking for. No offense taken as They can be a big help to newbies. The problem is I am not a newby and this isnt my first rodeo! Ha ha. There is lots to be gained from Utility breeding. Breeding for a utility purpose is more important than breeding for SOP standards. Take for example the climate in Michigan verses the climate in Texas. I surely want to breed something that will hold up to my climate verses theirs! So I want a pea combed, cold hardy, good egg layer with lots of meat that tastes good and develops fast. Soooo, I have my all my ducks in a row on what my goals are and what my perspective is to achieve them. I will keep you and others posted on the outcome as it progresses and what the results are.

I can understand how you took his comments and questions. I may be wrong, but I think he was trying to get you to expand on things in order to stimulate conversation and interest, and help others to think about things that they may not have thought about and make it a learning experience for everyone.

There are tons of registered, and non registered lurkers that simply read and learn by what goes on with the threads. Truly, many of us that have been on here a while often say things more for the benefit of lurkers than the original poster, to more fully clarify a thought or opinion because lots of people do not read an entire thread from the beginning. They don't even read the entire conversation in part of a thread from the beginning. So in *interrogating* you, it helps to refresh the conversation and have folks that haven't grasped a concept or that have come into the middle of a conversation, to get the gist of things and learn something.

 

[Beekissed]

Yep, we are used to gjensen's style and so do not see much offensive in it but know that's just his style and he means no more offense than anything by posing questions in just that way...to a newer member who is not used to that style, I could see where it seems a little abrupt or confrontational.

I don't necessarily agree with all he says and we cross purposes now and again, but I do recognize his wisdom and contribution to these threads and so I wait to see what develops from his posts, as I have found they are not merely idle questions or attempts to belittle or antagonize, but usually are meant to spur conversation about a topic, to get people to toss ideas back and forth and, in the end, I've learned something. Almost always I have learned something new....just like that conversation yesterday that folks thought was an argument, I learned something and gained two valuable links to other streams of information that I did not have previously. I bookmarked those and can now produce them when someone asks about that and I don't have a plausible answer.

That's of great value to me and, if you stick around long enough to sense the style of these chicken guys, you might find you learn things too and then you can see their questions in a different light. Maybe. I guess that depends on how a person wants to see things.

 

[frw1985]

Mine got into my jalepenos one year. They ate about 80 peppers. I was getting only about 80 percent out of my hens. Well the following week they kicked into 100 percent production! After that I grew an extra 6 plants just for the chickens .
Would free range more it were not for the mess. They always want to sit on the side walk. They will leave the garden alone but get into the raised beds. I have them netted now we plant to try them out more when it dries up some. We have had tons of rain I East Tx.
Anyone out there have any Light Sussex Eggs for sale close to Tx?
I am enjoying the feed subject!
But would like to hear more about what breeds everyone is crossing,
I like everyone wants a decent layer and decent meat production bird. I know you give up on to obtain the other.
I plan to purchase two different roosters to experiment on my hens to see how the carcass crosses. Not sure with them being res stars how that will turn out! Any input appreciated.
Thanks

 

[Our Roost]

Well hey there! I feel stimulated and am more enrgetic to get started. Lets get the party started!

 

[Beekissed]

Mine got into my jalepenos one year. They ate about 80 peppers. I was getting only about 80 percent out of my hens. Well the following week they kicked into 100 percent production! After that I grew an extra 6 plants just for the chickens .
Would free range more it were not for the mess. They always want to sit on the side walk. They will leave the garden alone but get into the raised beds. I have them netted now we plant to try them out more when it dries up some. We have had tons of rain I East Tx.
Anyone out there have any Light Sussex Eggs for sale close to Tx?
I am enjoying the feed subject!
But would like to hear more about what breeds everyone is crossing,
I like everyone wants a decent layer and decent meat production bird. I know you give up on to obtain the other.
I plan to purchase two different roosters to experiment on my hens to see how the carcass crosses. Not sure with them being res stars how that will turn out! Any input appreciated.
Thanks

I've crossed a standard bred WR male over a hatchery BA and got a thick, little barred hen that I hope lays like her mama...steady and large...but she already has a meatier, wider build than her mother who had the typical pinched and raised tail, so improvement has been made. Now to wait and see about the laying performance. That's my utility cross I'm playing with this season.

 

[dfr1973]

But would like to hear more about what breeds everyone is crossing,
I like everyone wants a decent layer and decent meat production bird. I know you give up on to obtain the other.
I plan to purchase two different roosters to experiment on my hens to see how the carcass crosses. Not sure with them being res stars how that will turn out! Any input appreciated.
Thanks

The only breed cross I am doing in the next year will be to put my nice, large Wyandotte cockerel over some of Ideal Poultry's Red Broiler pullets. Along with meaties that fill out nicely, this cross will let me know if Azar is carrying the recessive gene for single comb, or if he only has genes for the rose comb. This morning I have been mulling over the thought of keeping the single comb cockerel to use to check the pullets, since he is well-built except for the wrong comb.

Looking at the chicks from Luanne, and the chicks from Ideal, it almost seems like I am cross-breeding here! LOL Technically, this is a variety cross, as Luanne's are black phase BLR and I am going for Gold-Laced. My eventual goal:




I have a couple questions for you. Are you going with red stars because that is what you have at hand? Or did you pick them out for specific qualities? Are they a breed cross, like sex-links, or their own breed? If they are already a cross, do you see that affecting the progeny?

Finally, I used to live in Nacogdoches - the Pineywoods are beautiful.

 

[Beer can]

I know I've said this before, and kinda got picked on for it (LOL), the cross I am raising this summer a young trio that I will be line breeding started with of Naked Neck rooster over a Ayam Cemani hen. Culls from a woman who only wanted the ones that hatched with naked necks, these ones don't have naked necks. Wasn't my idea, but after reading up on NN crosses I think it will be a good one. Hoping for a meatier and hardier breed of fibro melanistic (black meat) chickens.

 

[bmvf]

Gotcha. Last year we started building small a-frames that can accommodate 1-2 roosters or a few hens - sort of whatever we might need them for. It helps a lot with having our extra breeding males, as well as when we have a bird that needs to be isolated for an injury or if they are being a bad bully and beating up everybody in their pen. They work well for both temporary and permanent housing for us.

Otherwise we have large a-frame tractors that we separate the males and females when they are approx. 2 months old. Separating by sexes to grow out was one of the best changes we made in our flock. The growth was much better on them all. There is still fights in the cockerel pens but not nearly as bad as when they were living with females. And the female pens have nest boxes whereas we dont' have to put nest boxes into the male pens, so that saves on building cost and time.

We recently turned our non-breeding stock into a free range flock with a long term goal of everyone free ranging. But I've already seen how you have to keep things protected or those chickens will get themselves into a mess just doing what chickens normally do.

Do you have pics? I'm debating how I want to build my next tractors.

 

[bnjrob]

Do you have pics? I'm debating how I want to build my next tractors.

These first ones are the small ones. They are 4 feet wide and approx. 3.5 feet tall. They range in length from 8 feet to 10 feet

The 4x8 ft ones do well to give 1 large fowl rooster a place to live and stretch his legs and wings. You could probably get away with shortening it down if you knew you were only going to put 1 bird in there, but we decided to go with 8 ft long minimum to make it more versatile, and in a pinch, on the rare occasion we have 2 males that can live together without killing each other, even 2 males could go in the shorter ones.

The roosting portion is a 2 ft wide roofing panel with foam board insulation underneath to help with heat since we don't have any trees, and we put shade cloth on the wire run portion.

The very last picture you can see a wheel sticking out off the back of the house on the right hand side. It's just a push-lawnmower wheel mounted onto a square metal rod.

We hang feed/and water from the center ridge pole, right in the section where the door opens, for easy refilling.

These are the only pens that we have that can be moved without the use of vehicle. The larger ones we build are actually sheds on wheels and are too heavy to just pick up the cable and pull.












Below are the large a-frames we use as grow out pens as well as some permanent housing after we found out how much faster, easier and cheaper they were to build than some of our original designs. You can see the tarp over the run area to keep out the winter rain.

This one was our first prototype so it doesn't have a nest box in it. The ones we have built since then for the females have a nest box built onto the back wall of the thing, so it is up about 8 inches from the floor of the apartment inside and can be accessed from the outside to collect eggs.

These are 8 ft wide and 10 ft long and roughly 6 ft tall so you can stand upright in the middle of them. The apartment area is 4 feet deep and takes almost an entire sheet of plywood for the slanted wall. These have to be moved with some sort of a vehicle/tractor - we normally use our lawn mowing garden tractor to pull them.

The wheels are mounted so that we pivot them into place to be able to move the house.

Generally we move the houses at night after the chickens have gone to roost so we don't have to worry about them getting hurt while moving. Some are stupid and won't walk with the house as it moves and these houses are heavy enough to kill a chicken if it hits them/runs over them. We've never killed a chicken but we have killed a vole moving one of the small a-frames over the top of it before.

All of our a-frame pens are open air but could certainly have the apartment roosting area enclosed to make a coop for folks that have chickens in colder climates than Texas. And insulation could be added to all the walls if need be, between the studs.






The apartment with a box as a makeshift nest box. Rope in the middle holding the hanging feeder. We've since improved the roosting bars to a more pleasing configuration. Roost ladders are made from 2x3 cedar to help deter bugs.


Flap on the back of the house that comes down in winter for a wind break. The flap is chained up in summer to allow air flow.

 

[Arielle]

Caught up-- THank you for th lively conversations over the last week.

And George-- hope you keep your current avatar!!!!