BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[Our Roost]

gjensen, Earlier I posted my intent to cross Blelefelders with blue orpingtons as a projected future meat bird for my own utility use. You posed many questions. What I lacked was data to back up my studies that made me choose these 2 breeds. I have 3 years of findings on the blue orpingtons but not the bielefelder breed. I dont own this breed and havent been able to acquire anything other than hearsay. I am 68 years old and it was a judgement call based on what I read and professional mentors I consulted about this cross. I much appreciated your input and your questions were spot on with my some of my own questions and thoughts of what I was wanting to accomplish and expect. I know that each parent bird is a contributor to the offspring but I dont know what will transfer in the cross. The bielefelders are auto sexed at birth but the orpingtons are not. One has a rose comb and the other has a pea comb. One has very thick shanked legs and the other does not. Both breeds are of good size and can be raised to a good table weight. I have pretty much explored all the good characteristics of each bird touching on most if not all the questions you posed.
Michigan is a 4 season climate and we winter our birds. I have the mind set to never own or handle more birds or breeds than you can maintain and retain your sanity. I currently have 2 coops and one will soon become more of a breeding pen than a permanent residence. I house about 30 chickens. My ultimate plan is to have one breed developed for both meat and eggs suitable to meet both needs. It has taken me 5 years before I opted to select the 3 breeds I will be using to try and achieve this utility goal and arrive at this project. I must admit that I am no Thomas Edison but I dislike failure. Successes are so much better when you can look back and be proud of yourself! I need mentors of experience like yourself to help and guide me along the way. I am very good at my retired trade but my hobby with chickens is a work in progress. If you or anyone can share in a diplomatic way, I would be very appreciative. Iam not real fond of diplomacy by the way. I like cold hard facts much better!

 

[dfr1973]

I have pretty much explored all the good characteristics of each bird touching on most if not all the questions you posed.

Now, what about all the bad characteristics? Anyone who claims a breed has no bad characteristics is not talking out of their mouth.

 

[Our Roost]

dfr1973, Fair enough and it surely deserves an answer. Did I mention that the blue orpingtons have nice big thick shanked legs? Well the bielefelder breed does not and I hope this feature doesnt transfer to the chicks. The blue orpington roosters have a large rose comb subject to frostbite and I hope the comb from the bielefelders takes precedence. Some but not all orpington roosters can be testy and I havent raised a bielefelder rooster as yet. So I do have some doubt in my mind how docile these birds will develop. In the meat department, I have raised the orpington breed for 5 years now and the one thing I can state is that they can lose size if you dont keep an eye on what you breed and from whom you acquire stock from. This is only my 3rd year with blue orps and I havent owned them long enough to see a scaled weight reduction from data. I neglected to collect any. I feel the gains outway the losses or bad characteristics and its worth the effort. If I lose, it wont be because I didnt try.

 

[jonservidio]

combs will be all over the board, but no big deal for your purposes.
I think type will be all over as well. hatch lots and cull hard

 

[DesertChic]

dfr1973, Fair enough and it surely deserves an answer. Did I mention that the blue orpingtons have nice big thick shanked legs? Well the bielefelder breed does not and I hope this feature doesnt transfer to the chicks. The blue orpington roosters have a large rose comb subject to frostbite and I hope the comb from the bielefelders takes precedence. Some but not all orpington roosters can be testy and I havent raised a bielefelder rooster as yet. So I do have some doubt in my mind how docile these birds will develop. In the meat department, I have raised the orpington breed for 5 years now and the one thing I can state is that they can lose size if you dont keep an eye on what you breed and from whom you acquire stock from. This is only my 3rd year with blue orps and I havent owned them long enough to see a scaled weight reduction from data. I neglected to collect any. I feel the gains outway the losses or bad characteristics and its worth the effort. If I lose, it wont be because I didnt try.

I hope you keep us posted on this project, including photos. I'm curious to see how it all works out. I've just started raising Biels this year as well as NN Turkens. I plan to keep pure strains of each in which I focus on breed improvement as well as making a cross of the two just to see what they turn out like. I know a lot of people detest the appearance of the NNs, but now that I've raised some for the past eight weeks and gotten used to their appearance and personalities I absolutely adore them.

 

[Our Roost]

They say beauty is only skin deep and its whats inside that counts? I cringe everytime I see a picture of a naked neck Turken and wonder what happened to the poor bird! There has to be some history behind its appearance. Why oh why does it lack feathering? Oh well, if you like it, keep it. I have read postings of other chicken lovers wanting to crossbreed this bird as well. Iam sure you could connect with some of them.
My project? I only discussed and talked about phase 1 of my plan. I plan to introduce a third bird into the mix down the line if all goes well. The last thing I want is a bunch of barnyard specials having no purpose getting fed for free with no benefeits! Utility breeding is a challenge and finding a few good coaching mentors to divulge what to do and not to do has been a struggle. Fortunately I have acquired just enough information to get started. It is more of a hobby to me than a business. Its not hard to butt heads and get redirected with people in the know. The main thing is to share and get educated. You cant learn unless you ask and read! Byc forum is a good place to start! I love this thread.

 

[neopolitancrazy]

... Did I mention that the blue orpingtons have nice big thick shanked legs?...The blue orpington roosters have a large rose comb...

This is generally a good, informative post but I don't understand all of it. Why the blue orpingtons again? I have never seen any color Orps other than Buffs in the real world, and have seen big-shanked birds in many other breeds, so why Blue Orpingtons?

Wyandottes, Dominiques, Hamburgs and Redcaps have rose combs. Some Anconas, Dorkings, Minorcas, Rhode Island Reds and Leghorns have rose combs, but I am fairly sure all colors of Orpingtons are supposed to have medium-sized single combs.

Best wishes,
Angela

 

[RedRidge]

[CONTENTEMBED=/t/845018/breeding-for-production-eggs-and-or-meat/3210#post_14937685 layout=inline]

Gotcha.  Last year we started building small a-frames that can accommodate 1-2 roosters or a few hens - sort of whatever we might need them for.  It helps a lot with having our extra breeding males, as well as when we have a bird that needs to be isolated for an injury or if they are being a bad bully and beating up everybody in their pen.  They work well for both temporary and permanent housing for us. [/CONTENTEMBED]

Otherwise we have large a-frame tractors that we separate the males and females when they are approx. 2 months old.  Separating by sexes to grow out was one of the best changes we made in our flock.  The growth was much better on them all.  There is still fights in the cockerel pens  but not nearly as bad as when they were living with females.  And the female pens have nest boxes whereas we dont' have to put nest boxes into the male pens, so that saves on building cost and time.

We recently turned our non-breeding stock into a free range flock with a long term goal of everyone free ranging.  But I've already seen how you have to keep things protected or those chickens will get themselves into a mess just doing what chickens normally do. 

Do you have pics?  I'm debating how I want to build my next tractors.

This is one of several we have built for our city dwelling relatives and friends.

 

[RedRidge]

gjensen, Earlier I posted my intent to cross Blelefelders with blue orpingtons as a projected future meat bird for my own utility use. You posed many questions. What I lacked was data to back up my studies that made me choose these 2 breeds. I have 3 years of findings on the blue orpingtons but not the bielefelder breed. I dont own this breed and havent been able to acquire anything other than hearsay. I am 68 years old and it was a judgement call based on what I read and professional mentors I consulted about this cross. I much appreciated your input and your questions were spot on with my some of my own questions and thoughts of what I was wanting to accomplish and expect. I know that each parent bird is a contributor to the offspring but I dont know what will transfer in the cross. The bielefelders are auto sexed at birth but the orpingtons are not. One has a rose comb and the other has a pea comb. One has very thick shanked legs and the other does not. Both breeds are of good size and can be raised to a good table weight. I have pretty much explored all the good characteristics of each bird touching on most if not all the questions you posed.
Michigan is a 4 season climate and we winter our birds. I have the mind set to never own or handle more birds or breeds than you can maintain and retain your sanity. I currently have 2 coops and one will soon become more of a breeding pen than a permanent residence. I house about 30 chickens. My ultimate plan is to have one breed developed for both meat and eggs suitable to meet both needs. It has taken me 5 years before I opted to select the 3 breeds I will be using to try and achieve this utility goal and arrive at this project. I must admit that I am no Thomas Edison but I dislike failure. Successes are so much better when you can look back and be proud of yourself! I need mentors of experience like yourself to help and guide me along the way. I am very good at my retired trade but my hobby with chickens is a work in progress. If you or anyone can share in a diplomatic way, I would be very appreciative. Iam not real fond of diplomacy by the way. I like cold hard facts much better!

For what it's worth, this is very similar to the project I've been working on for several years now. My standard bred RC rir are truly dual purpose with good lay rates and excellent carcass weights, tenderness, etc. I have been using them to bring the autosexed Rhodebars up to par. It's been a fun and very educational project.

 

[Beekissed]

I would LOVE to see pics of your Rhodebars...I find them to be a very beautiful bird!