BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[hellbender]

I found this little experiment/study interesting. It would have been better comparing breeder quality heritage chickens rather than hatchery but interesting non the less.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...14HoCA&usg=AFQjCNHQp37ynO9sUNNcPCbYJoH4lbArRQ

Quite a little exercise but interesting. Thanks for posting the link.

 

[gjensen]

Here's an article that everyone might be interested in (besides chuckling over the picture of "barred rock breed" chickens):
Why nothing, especially chicken, tastes like it used to

This is an interesting article, and they do well with the timeline.

I only partially disagree with the conclusions.

Where they lose me is that progress is beginnings of a problem, and that it is necessarily.

I am not anti progress, and am pro progress. There is always a question of where too far is. We do tend to trend towards extremes. Considering that chicken in a large way feeds the world, an ever growing world, and an ever growing demand . . . it is hard for me to be critical. The industry does remarkably well at doing what it is supposed to do.

So I do not think the "Chicken of Tomorrow" contests or improvements were the start of a problem. They more defining shift occurred from the mid fifties into the 60s. The product changed into a new product all together by the 70s. Today, comparing before and now is comparing two different things all together.

Now I do not think that any of us here would disagree that what we buy at Wal Mart does not match up with what we have at home concerning flavor. Some of that is due to the age of the bird, some of it is the amount of exercise, some of it is genetics, and some of it is diet. It is not just the birds that have changed, but the methods, and I would argue that commercially a necessity.

I do enjoy the fuller flavor of home raised birds. I do not enjoy old poorly managed "yard birds". For me, and to me, there is a balance. I enjoy tender young birds, but I prefer a firmer more dense flesh, but not tough and too stringy. I enjoy the mild, but full flavor of well managed birds raised at home.

In the early 50s it was common to raise the birds in batteries at home. The idea was to limit exercise, and to enjoy a more tender bird at a younger age. The English and French were known for fattening batteries even earlier. Capons were for a more tender bird at larger sizes. People have preferred tender (which meant young) all along. The modern market gives the people what they want. A big tender meaty bird. For those of us that know better, it is lacking in flavor.

So my own personal conclusion is not to use etc. as an excuse for mediocrity. I want to raise tender, fine and full favored birds in a manner that fits my own balance of personal ideals. I enjoy eating my birds. I prefer what I have, but I do pay more for it. It does come at a cost.

I did enjoy reading the article. Thank you for sharing it.

 

[gjensen]

I found this little experiment/study interesting. It would have been better comparing breeder quality heritage chickens rather than hatchery but interesting non the less.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...14HoCA&usg=AFQjCNHQp37ynO9sUNNcPCbYJoH4lbArRQ

This a good article. It has it's problems but overall was good. If the individual sticks with this interest, they will come to some different conclusions in time.

They were right to notice that 16wks would probably be better for processing than 18wks. There is a point where money starts being spent to no real advantage. You guys have heard me say that over and again.

They also would improve the effort by sourcing better genetics. I can achieve in 14 wks what they did in 18wks. That makes for a younger bird, an a months less feed. There is a balance between final size and rate of growth. Where a bird is most efficient varies. Some are more efficient larger and there is a point where efficiency is lost due to size. Some here will not fully get that point, but with observation and time will. The author mentions the advantage of the opportunity to make selections over time rightly, and we should aim to realize where they are the most efficient. We select for early maturity, but we should also be mindful of final size. Should ours be a little larger or smaller to be the most efficient?

I looked at the picture of the 5wk NHs, and the difference is obvious between those and my own. Mine are creeping toward 2lbs by then, and those in the picture might be a single pound. Mine are also fully feathered and the differences in sex is obvious.

So that brings me to strain. They are making breed comparisons, but really they are only evaluating strains. There can be very big differences between strains. It is hard to explain to people that today there is nor real and defined typical for a breed. Our impressions are based on historic reputations, but breeds and strains change in time. Some strains go one way and another another. There is differences between lines and families depending on a founding sire, selection, etc.

The article was refreshing because the effort was intelligent. There are some opinions stated as fact, but the process was good. It would be interesting to hear whether or not this was continued on some level. This individual could realize much improvement in time. The mindset and effort is good.

 

[bramblefir]

You're most welcome!

 

[LindaB220]

I found this little experiment/study interesting. It would have been better comparing breeder quality heritage chickens rather than hatchery but interesting non the less.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...14HoCA&usg=AFQjCNHQp37ynO9sUNNcPCbYJoH4lbArRQ

Great article!!!! e

 

[Arielle]

That's what they say and all, but the most squirrel tailed hens in the flock are the best layers and also layers of huge eggs~Black Australorp and White Leghorns. Of course, that's hatchery style birds but they still put out the eggs and do it for years. I've seen no evidence that a squirrel tailed hen can't lay like a dream. On the other hand, I've seen many with a beautiful level tail and wide tent not lay worth a dime, even on their best days and during the peak season.

Go figure.

Thanks for voicing your experience Bee. My intuition said that equating squirrel tail with poor egg laying was one of two things. Either these two traits are significantly impacted by the same chromosome. . . .or it was the wish of the fanciers ( and I mean that respectfully). No one has been able to cite any evidence other than tradition. . . . and sometimes I need a bit more than that to understand.

I'm willing to put up with some squirrely tails to keep this SS flock going.

 

[Beekissed]

Shorter link: http://mysare.sare.org/mySARE/ProjectReport.aspx?do=viewRept&pn=FNC12-866&y=2013&t=1

Interesting indeed - the surprise for me was how poorly the SLW did in that survey. I am hoping Cackle's GLWs are a bit better than their SLWs, as I have 26 GLW pullets happily hopping around in the brooder coop.

I'm not surprised at how poorly the SLW did....I've had them in various flocks down through the years and they always performed the same, no matter what the source. Ate a lot, laid a little, bad temperaments, average carcass but nothing to shout about.

I'm also not surprised by the feed thrift of the WRs, though I can't imagine any universe in which a Dominique can weigh out a heavier carcass than a WR.

What I found be off about this experiment is the term "pasture raised" and the example given as to what that is, exactly. From what I saw at Salatin's place, the birds derived absolutely no benefit from standing on the grass in a pasture and I doubt those in the experiment did either, so the misleading term "pasture raised" has very little true meaning, though I'm sure it evokes a wholesome image in those less in the know. There is no true foraging going on in that space being trampled by all the other birds in the pen, nor is there much consumption of greens for very much the same reason. For all the good it did, they might as well have raised them in the same size pen attached to a barn. To me, it's not even a variable in the experiment and shouldn't even be mentioned.

 

[RattlesnakeRidgeWV]

Go Bee X2.

 

[Our Roost]

I got an egg from one of my golden cuckoo marans this morning measuring 3 and 1/4 inches long. A double yoke for sure!

 

[RattlesnakeRidgeWV]

Giant oversized eggs sound and look neat, however they are a problem down the road for that chickens health. I would not breed that chicken because it's offspring can have the same problems latter. There are sooo many ovaduct problems that cause oversiezed eggs and they are not in the chickens best interest!
Kurt