BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[gjensen]

Concerning the numbers . . . .10% of 20 is two. What are you going to do with two birds? 10% of 50 is 5, and enough to replace a single small family at a time.

It is an option to replace a small family per season. There has to be some genetic depth to go for any length of time. Especially if we have any concern for production where vigor does play a large role, and more of a role than it would in an exhibition line. We are unable to compare ours with theirs, because if theirs has no health problems, and they can hatch enough, they are happy. We want that and more.

So I would seriously suggest considering genetic depth, and what it does take to move forward while maintaining that depth, and make actual progress at the same time over time . . . . For those of us that have no experience doing that, and really have no idea what it requires, we should be a little more open minded (and less critical). I would want some feel for what it does take by experience before I would criticize.

Let me illustrate it this way. How many do we know, truly know, that have bred a breed continuously for over a decade? Not five years, or two. 10 years or more without interruption or outcross, and with sustained success that is recognized by their peers. These would make for good references. How have they achieved this sustained success over time and with their own birds exclusively? Forget two or three years. Let us discuss 10-15 years. How many breeding birds do they have? How many do they hatch and rear? Do they split it up? How do they manage the process and achieve what they do? Now, how productive is this flock? I am not referring to maintaining a small show string for 5-6 years. I want to discuss 10 and 15 years. Something with depth, continuity, and verifiable vigor in birds that actually produce.

 

[Ifish]

I'm not real familiar with ISA Browns. We had Red Sexlinks for almost 10 years. They are bred to be easy to sex, but also as laying machines. I believe that any hatchery can breed sexlink birds, but ISA Browns are copyrighted or something like the Cornish Cross. That's why there are now different names for different sexlink birds. Golden Comets, Red Stars, etc. Red Sexlinks are pretty much the non copyrighted name I believe.

 

[dfr1973]

Hmm, the numbers game. Hubby and I were discussing that last night. I am trying to make sure he fully understands that I will be hatching some large numbers for both the F1 and F2 generations in the hope of getting a handful of chicks with the right combination of genes. Since I am pretty much starting from scratch, I'll need to really "roll the dice" and select carefully. When I compared it to his tabletop wargame, he nodded and grasped the idea: the more dice you can roll per throw the higher your chance of a six coming up.

We will be eating a LOT of chicken for quite a few years.

 

[Beekissed]

Dice are a game of chance, whereas breeding a six to a six would likely result in more sixes than any other number, I imagine. If not, then one could breed any given bird in your flock to any other given bird, no real selection going on, and expect that if you did that enough you'd get the chickens you wanted. They would have a six somewhere in their genetic code and you just have to roll those dice plenty to find it. Just keep rolling and rolling...doesn't matter what you breed to what, just as long as you hatch a full plenty.

 

[rc50]

There you have the key.. knowing what the 6 is and alway... always breeding the 6 to another 6..

 

[dfr1973]

Allow me to clarify: right now, I don't really know the genetic background of the hatchery stock I will be using. I am going on phenotype (physical characteristics) alone for selecting my P generation. The Wyandottes I have from Luanne have size, body type, good meatiness ... and while all the potential breeders are showing gold ("brassiness") the darker red obscures the lacing. This is what I mean by "pretty much starting from scratch." It will take either several generations or large early generations to find the right combination of traits I have in my head. I am going with the large early generations, then selecting carefully. (I just rechecked my post, and I did mention selecting carefully in F1 and F2.)

As an aside, the couple weeks between when a pullet pinks up in the face and when she finally lays the first pullet bullet seem like FOREVER.

 

[Our Roost]

gjensen, I am not thinking negatively nor did I miss the point. In fact I agree with most of your concept. Utility breeding has a defined need for the homesteader. If you are striving for a good egg layer and a great tasty meat bird that also is good in all kinds of climates that has great immunity to disease and is robust then you just set your own S.O.P. for your goals and wants along with your needs. You have to create that population before you can move it forward. Continuous improvement is definitely moving the product, population, and production in the right direction. I'm following your concept but with a lot smaller numbers. By the way, I hatched out 28 crossbreed birds this spring. I am only in the creation mode and the selection has yet to begin.

 

[Our Roost]

Beekissed, I wasn't singling out any particular breeder, just the numbers concept. I cant and wont do what most suggest! I never take on more than I can handle regardless of the 115 acres we have. Call me bull headed but I will manage to create and do more with less. I very well know what I want and what I am working towards so my own goal or S.O.P. are a work in progress. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Beekissed]

Beekissed, I wasn't singling out any particular breeder, just the numbers concept. I cant and wont do what most suggest! I never take on more than I can handle regardless of the 115 acres we have. Call me bull headed but I will manage to create and do more with less. I very well know what I want and what I am working towards so my own goal or S.O.P. are a work in progress. Thanks for sharing!

Same here. I won't be pressed into raising more birds than I can handle right now by suggestions that one is merely dabbling if they don't hatch out hundreds. I know what I can do and have done, I have nothing to prove. I don't need to have the admiration of any peers( I don't really think I have any, for that matter) to see how much food is produced here and how good the birds look....that is proven every day here.

 

[JRNash]

Gjensen, I thought I saw some white chantecler that you were raising in another older thread. If it was you could you post some more pictures. I don't remember where I saw it. And they were truly spectacular. Thanks