BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[JRNash]

There is a web site " SCRIBD " that I read online books. Free to join,first month free. I downloaded some of the historical poultry books,including an APA STANDARD from the 1930's. The amount of information is unbelievable. I can't wait until I get the current standard. It will be interesting to see how they differ

 

[JRNash]

According to the 1932 standard shanks of any color other than yellow on my plymouth rocks was a disqualification.

 

[Fentress]

 You do not have the variability to make that fundamental of a change. You have three choices. Kill them all and start over, outcross, or crossbreed.

 The author, obviously, had the variability within the line he was working with. The gene you are dealing with is a recessive. It is not rocket science to separate yourself from the recessive, but it is a process.

 You can do this and have a respectable flock in a few generations. They will not be respected by the purists, but they will among the general enthusiasts, would actually be good Rocks that perform, and put the hatchery examples to shame.

 We could use some good utility lines of Rocks, so I would like to see you do it.

Thanks. That is what I have always tthought regarding my line of rocks, but they have some very good qualities as well. Yes my ultimate goal, would be to have a more productive line of standard bred BR for home consumption, but that seems so far away. I basically know what has to be done, I just don't want to do it. LOL. This is a demanding hobby that I have gotten myself into. For now, I am making plans to get an incubator. Ugh! I love my broodies, but realistically, I need to get feet on the ground in early spring.

 

[Fentress]

George,

If I out crossed, the standard bred BR line that I cross with, would also be slow, more than likely, but would the new mix of genes, provide the opportunity to start selecting for faster growth?

Thanks

 

[gjensen]

George,

If I out crossed, the standard bred BR line that I cross with, would also be slow, more than likely, but would the new mix of genes, provide the opportunity to start selecting for faster growth?

Thanks

Outside of the initial invigoration, limited by the potential of the strain that you outcross to.

Possibly a two way or three way cross would stir the pot enough to give you some hope. I would be reluctant to rely on what has not already been realized however.

What is your goal(s) specifically?

A friend of mine and I discussed this for a time. She did move forward with it, and did have some success. This is not a good picture, but should give you an idea of what could be realized in a few generations. These were laying by 24wks, and laid plenty of large eggs. That is a good point of lay for birds of this size.

 

[bnjrob]

According to the 1932 standard shanks of any color other than yellow on my plymouth rocks was a disqualification.

When you find specific notations of particular traits being a DQ (disqualification), that generally suggests that at that time period, there were enough birds known to exhibit those traits that they had to make a special comment about it. The new SOP has a list of general DQs, and there are individual DQs written on particular breeds, but the old SOPs tended to have more specific DQ comments listed with the individual breeds which are not always the same DQs for each breed.

I find going through antique literature of all kinds, not just poultry literature, to be quite fascinating and very helpful.

 

[gjensen]

Thanks. That is what I have always tthought regarding my line of rocks, but they have some very good qualities as well. Yes my ultimate goal, would be to have a more productive line of standard bred BR for home consumption, but that seems so far away. I basically know what has to be done, I just don't want to do it. LOL. This is a demanding hobby that I have gotten myself into. For now, I am making plans to get an incubator. Ugh! I love my broodies, but realistically, I need to get feet on the ground in early spring.

You are right. They do have some outstanding qualities. I would not want to lose their strengths. There is a lot to commend them. The only problem I have with them is the rate that they sexually mature, a bit oversized, and the egg size was lacking for birds of that size. Other than that, I love them. Much better than most birds available.

I am learning to appreciate and enjoy brooding hens, but I will always use a good incubator.

 

[DesertChic]

Fast egg laying is not a surprise since hatcheries make money off of selling chicks hatched from eggs. My guess is that the cockerels will get to a smaller adult size faster.

The goal of the hatchery is egg production. The goal of the breeder is an SOP quality show bird. Over time you get different production from the breeding goals.

Hatchery Barred Rocks, are not Rocks. They are cuckoo patterned layers that are pretty good at what they do. Lay eggs. They are not comparable though, the two. They are a tale of two extremes. The right place to be, from my point of view, is in the middle.

And you would not want Rocks laying by 18wks. 24 wks. is a reasonable time frame for their type and size. 18wks is most appropriate for small and light weight layers like Leghorns where the hens do not get much larger than 4lbs. A Rock hen should be 7lbs.

The numbers, dates, and weights etc. do have a correlation. The sooner we get a feel for this, the better we understand our birds, their type, their nature, their performance, why, etc.

Right....sorry. That was a stupid remark on my part. I should know better by now. Thanks for reminding me that I need to maintain this distinction in my mind lest I begin to make foolish assumptions (again). Sometimes my amateur status still gets the better of me.

 

[Fentress]

Outside of the initial invigoration, limited by the potential of the strain that you outcross to. Possibly a two way or three way cross would stir the pot enough to give you some hope. I would be reluctant to rely on what has not already been realized however. What is your goal(s) specifically? A friend of mine and I discussed this for a time. She did move forward with it, and did have some success. This is not a good picture, but should give you an idea of what could be realized in a few generations. These were laying by 24wks, and laid plenty of large eggs. That is a good point of lay for birds of this size.

24 weeks is excellent. I would take that in a heart beat. Combine that with preserving my existing meat qualities and that would be a real winner. I'll be paying close attention this year, regarding an acceptable fryer size. I know they make good roasters. Realistically, I would not be dissapointed with 20 weeks. I think you have stated that your NH's achieve 4 lbs dressed at 16 weeks. That is very good.

 

[gjensen]

Right....sorry. That was a stupid remark on my part. I should know better by now. Thanks for reminding me that I need to maintain this distinction in my mind lest I begin to make foolish assumptions (again). Sometimes my amateur status still gets the better of me.

I am sorry. That is not how I intended it. It was intended for the general audience, and not as a correction.