BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[Fire Ant Farm]

Predation is not a good selector unless you are moving to southeast Asia and will select Jungle Fowl. We are not raising wild birds. That would be like breeding and selecting Labrador Retrievers to survive like wolves. What I am saying is we are breeding egg and meat producers not Jungle Fowl. Our birds are at an unfair disadvantage against hawks etc. Managing predators is part of the game.

Excellent point...

 

[JRNash]

Such a clearcut and unencumbered view of things. To each his own. May we all prosper at our endeavors.
The End.

 

[Dave C]

Amen

 

[Dave C]

 

 Now I always understood the purpose of this thread by it's title. What I like to discuss is the actual breeding. Breeding useful birds to be useful. That could be actual breeds and traditional simple crosses for me.  Other than that, I have no real interest in BYC at all.

gjensen, can I ask what your traditional breeds and crosses are please and how you are getting on with them.

 

[hellbender]

@Hellbender don't get me wrong,I do enjoy the purebloods the aristocrats. But for me personally its a way IMO of starting with known fixed attributes as I play with my own hybrids. And honestly if it wasn't for people thinking this way with similar goals we would IMO still be getting eggs from Junglefowl and their kindred

And please don't misunderstand me. I will always have purebred chickens with which to make my hybrids. I realize that good quality purebreds are essential but I don't think they must fit the APA standards in every point. I feel that those who breed for extraordinary feather type and color will have to give up something....like meat and/or egg production...

OK ...WE'll be leaving out of here today after the morning work is done. I don't know when I'll be back on but my daughter will have access to my pc but will NOT post anything....unless very happy or less than happy news. lol

You folks hold the fort down.

Let me make just one other point here....while I may sometimes seem argumentative (I am once in a while

).. I respect and appreciate the opinions of ALL who are part of this thread and I value your participation here. Especially George, who delivers insight and helps to keep the track a bit more narrow than would be the case without him.

RON

 

[Our Roost]

A small tip for counting egg totals per year. At the beginning of each year we number our egg cartons beginning at 1 and tally up the carton count at end of year. Easy enough to divide the number of layers into the total count to get an average of the flock production for the year by dozens laid. You may have several layer breeds but if all you are wanting to do is keep egg count, this works for us.

 

[DesertChic]

You know, your mention of gardening just made my brain turn in a different direction in thinking of this. I'm thinking of seed savers and people who develop hyperlocal strains of a given variety that do the very best in their yard/area - and this is seen as a very good thing, as it leads to lots of variety with regard to pest/disease resistance, heat or cold resistance, or thriving in salty soil (and therefore more resilience in the face of serious threats on a wider scale, re: severe weather, climate, or pest/disease outbreaks). See Irish potato famine for reference.

Indeed this is what we all should be doing for our own birds in our own flocks - and, by default, we do (hopefully), because we select those who do well. For instance, all of mine will ultimately be selected to do well in this hot hot climate (meat birds will grow well, layers will lay well), and to be alert and run for cover when an aerial predator approaches. This leads to overall increased robustness PROVIDED there is mindful selection. Letting everyone have babies regardless won't get you very far, and too many "crutches" would be problematic as well (which I will struggle with - how long do I provide overhead protection, what losses am I willing to accept - I will need to develop more vegetative cover before leaving them open and exposed to hawks, though).

I think the reason I'm so irritated about the CL situation is that I had always planned to do this work with the Naked Neck flock, but hadn't really anticipated a second "project" to work on the CLs. More work (though if it bothers me this much, I suppose I should put my money where my mouth is...)

- Ant Farm

I'm kind of in the same boat as you. I'm very focused on the work I'm doing with my Turkens since they're my meat flock, but I find myself being more selective and focused also with my Bielefelders. I only have two cockerels, one of which is more of a pet and not a breeder, and three pullets in my flock as I culled the other four cockerels. Originally I thought I'd be focusing on the Biels, but after seeing how hard our summer heat was on them I decided that my plans for them need to adjust and I'm delaying any breeding programs. Meanwhile, I just hatched 22 eggs, the majority of which are Turkens and the remainder are just going to be egg laying birds. Keeping track of everything can get tedious at times, and I'm wondering how long it will be before I decide to focus exclusively on just my Turkens.

You hit the nail on the head Antfarm. A bird I raise for MY conditions may not be suited fir yours and vice versabut we can all garden

Some of us born with brown thumbs find gardening to be more challenging than raising and breeding chickens.

 

[gjensen]

gjensen, can I ask what your traditional breeds and crosses are please and how you are getting on with them.

If you will notice, I said could be traditional breeds and crosses.

My main interests has been two breeds. New Hamphires, and Catalanas.

My Catalana project is just that. A project. There are only a couple viable flocks in this country other than my own. That is, that I know of. If there is another, it would be a pleasant surprise. I had put a lot of effort into sourcing them and tracking where they had been, and who had them at some point along the way.
Because the other couple flocks were distantly related, and some concerning faults seamed to be fixed in my starter flock, I opted for a breed cross on the side. I am repeatedly breeding the offspring back to the original birds, and trying to fix a couple problems while doing it. A grading project. I will eventually (I hope) use this new line as an outcross for the original.
I feel like I am making progress, though I have concerns. But, there are always concerns. I will let others judge them in time. If I get them to a point where they are any good, others will recognize that. Those that knew where I started, and where I am now (or will be), can make their own judgments. These would be the most qualified to do that.

I love the New Hampshires. I have neglected them the last couple years. I hope to correct that. Again, I will let others decide whether or not I have done well with them. I hope that I have. I would not have traded them for any other flock in this country though. That is not speaking of where they should be, but where I have been, and that what is there could get me there.

Once the Catalana project is stable, I expect that I will shift my emphasis. The challenge of it appealed to me. Anyone can buy birds and keep them on the yard. Many can maintain them for a time. Very few make something out of nothing. I am trying, but it is not known yet whether or not I will be successful.

I started in this hobby experimenting with misc. It is in my nature to do that. Along the way, my interest evolved into breeding and improving actual breeds. The challenge of it appeals to me. However, I never lost my interest in breeding utility fowl. I have felt that it was a lost art that we should re learn. I have spent a lot of time trying to relearn it. I am not interested in beauty contests, but I do want a bird that represents the breed well. I do still breed them and expect them to be productive. Unproductive birds do not live long here.

What I mean by traditional simple crosses, is the simple crossing of two breeds to benefit from hybrid vigor and/or visible sex linked traits. Here in the States, that would be Reds and New Hamphires over Delaware or Barred Rocks etc. etc. If I was where you are, It would be Reds or New Hamphires over a good table strain of Light Sussex.

 

[Dave C]

Very interesting, which breed did you use in the Catalana outcross a New Hampshire?
Also how many generations of crossing back are you at ? are you near to your goal of introducing this blood to your pure flock ?

 

[dfr1973]

Some of us born with brown thumbs find gardening to be more challenging than raising and breeding chickens.

That would be me, with my "gift" of being able to kill mint in three states with three different climates and soils (Indiana, Tennessee, now Florida). Ah well, I do have one very happy Greek oregano plant out there, and one Swiss chard that survived the summer heat. There's always hope for the next season - in this case, the winter garden going in.

On the chicken side of things, I will be doing a day 17 candling of 24 eggs as I take them off the turner this evening! All but two are Wyandotte eggs, and I started with a total of 29 eggs. Two clear, two blood rings, and one that appeared to have a crack in the shell at the day 10 candling.

The little black Silkie cockerel (the only one I was sure was a cockerel) managed to injure himself, so I took him up to Leo, who had called me Friday asking if I would have any Silkie cockerels ready any time soon. He's been wanting two a month at the minimum, and I've had to explain they just don't grow *that* fast. He was very excited when I said I'll be setting Silkie eggs starting with the next batch. I am hoping another little black Silkie chick I saw chest-bumping is also a cockerel that I can put in with the five splash pullets. Yup, I am aiming for blue Silkies, just for my own enjoyment.