BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[hellbender]

A little learning is a dangerous thing ;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring :
There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely sobers us again.
Fired at first sight with what the Muse imparts,
In fearless youth we tempt the heights of Arts ;
While from the bounded level of our mind
Short views we take, nor see the lengths behind,
But, more advanced, behold with strange surprise
New distant scenes of endless science rise !
So pleased at first the towering Alps we try,
Mount o’er the vales, and seem to tread the sky ;
The eternal snows appear already past,
And the first clouds and mountains seem the last ;
But those attained, we tremble to survey
The growing labours of the lengthened way ;
The increasing prospect tires our wandering eyes,
Hill peep o’er hills, and Alps on Alps arise !



Alexander Pope


Some will grasp the pertinence of this post and it will glide right over the heads of those who don't want to grasp it's meaning.

 

[gjensen]

When I first started out I did what grandma said, I got barred rocks, austrolorps and RIR, hatched in the spring, butchered in the late summer through fall. Noticed that the meat was tough. For a while I concerned myself with the differences in hatchery birds from the year 2000 and grandma's 1950's models. I was convinced that the chickens had somehow been horribly transformed. What I learned, as I handled meat and processed chickens, is that it is not the chickens that have changed, so much as people's knowledge of what to do with them. Meat must age, as much as we raise our foods and pride ourselves on freshness, for it to be tender, it must be either extremely young, extremely fat or it must hang for a while. When I started thinking of my grandma shoving chickens in a crock sunk in springwater instead of a fridge, and reading of market hunting in the days of wagons and birds hanging in market square, this was driven home. You can let your birds get old enough to have meat on them, and it won't be a waste of feed if they are eating bugs and weed seeds and what they can find behind the pigs and the cows. But unless you want shoe leather jerky, you have to let it age. Flavor from pastured, heritage birds cannot be matched, and aged properly you can have them turn out pretty tender.

I agree with all of this with a qualifier. An old cock will not be tender even if you age him until he rots, LOL. An old cock is an old cock.

They understood, even then, that the more tender flesh was realized with birds before they could crow.

Your grandmothers generation would have been familiar with battery raising birds. That is confinement off of the ground, and nothing to do but eat. This practice spanned more than a generation. two principles were realized. Eat a young tender bird. The other was the more exercise, the tougher and more stringy the meat.

Now, I am not saying that everyone should battery raise birds, Some might find it interesting, but my point is quality is not an old tough yard bird. That was understood then and now. It wa just beyond us to let an old bird go to waste.

There is a balance. I like a bird that has flavor. The modern store bought birds cannot compare concerning flavor. But I do not want to go to the other extreme either. There is a balance.

There is a balance between going back to the 1850s, and 2015. Concerning poultry meat, I like the 1950s and 60s. I appreciate progress, but not the extremes.

But you are right. We have to learn how all over again.

Good post,
\

 

[hellbender]

I agree with all of this with a qualifier. An old cock will not be tender even if you age him until he rots, LOL. An old cock is an old cock.

They understood, even then, that the more tender flesh was realized with birds before they could crow.

Your grandmothers generation would have been familiar with battery raising birds. That is confinement off of the ground, and nothing to do but eat. This practice spanned more than a generation. two principles were realized. Eat a young tender bird. The other was the more exercise, the tougher and more stringy the meat.

Now, I am not saying that everyone should battery raise birds, Some might find it interesting, but my point is quality is not an old tough yard bird. That was understood then and now. It wa just beyond us to let an old bird go to waste.

There is a balance. I like a bird that has flavor. The modern store bought birds cannot compare concerning flavor. But I do not want to go to the other extreme either. There is a balance.

There is a balance between going back to the 1850s, and 2015. Concerning poultry meat, I like the 1950s and 60s. I appreciate progress, but not the extremes.

But you are right. We have to learn how all over again.

Good post,
\

"We will kill the Old Red Rooster when she comes" Sorry....couldn't help myself.

EDIT: Even though this is a children's rhyme, it indicates that the older rooster was selected for an honored guest.

 

[gjensen]

A little learning is a dangerous thing ;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring :
There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely sobers us again.
Fired at first sight with what the Muse imparts,
In fearless youth we tempt the heights of Arts ;
While from the bounded level of our mind
Short views we take, nor see the lengths behind,
But, more advanced, behold with strange surprise
New distant scenes of endless science rise !
So pleased at first the towering Alps we try,
Mount o’er the vales, and seem to tread the sky ;
The eternal snows appear already past,
And the first clouds and mountains seem the last ;
But those attained, we tremble to survey
The growing labours of the lengthened way ;
The increasing prospect tires our wandering eyes,
Hill peep o’er hills, and Alps on Alps arise !



Alexander Pope


Some will grasp the pertinence of this post and it will glide right over the heads of those who don't want to grasp it's meaning.

I like this.

 

[varidgerunner]

Agreed, an old rooster is an old rooster. A pressure canner and a food processor some mayo and pickle relish is about the only thing that will do him any good. Sometimes the only thing he can contribute is some broth. An old practice, that is the go between, is to catch up yard birds that are roosters and put them in a pen for a little fattening before butchering. A couple weeks can do some good compared to one that is left out to fend for himself. Month would be better.This was done with lots of livestock. Grain finishing after pasture raising. A good concept of old. In practice, as much as fattening you were letting the muscles soften up a little, from not being used.

 

[ronott1]

I like to wait a couple of weeks or so after they start crowing.

I have three to process this weekend.

Yum!

 

[hellbender]

Agreed, an old rooster is an old rooster. A pressure canner and a food processor some mayo and pickle relish is about the only thing that will do him any good. Sometimes the only thing he can contribute is some broth. An old practice, that is the go between, is to catch up yard birds that are roosters and put them in a pen for a little fattening before butchering. A couple weeks can do some good compared to one that is left out to fend for himself. Month would be better.This was done with lots of livestock. Grain finishing after pasture raising. A good concept of old. In practice, as much as fattening you were letting the muscles soften up a little, from not being used.

I usually 'finish' all chickens, even the capons for at least 30 days, with buttermilk and coarse cornmeal. Will sometimes use cooked rice and or oatmeal. Over-kill" perhaps but this is what I find to make my birds especially delicious for my family and of course...me.

 

[bramblefir]

This thread has been busier than I have!

So, a general update on what's going on here:

Five of our 7 female alpacas have given birth for a total of 4 female crias and 1 male cria. We've given up on the 2 remaining adult females - they either absorbed their pregnancies or they were covered at a later date than we observed. We'll be breeding some of them back in the spring, ideally after they've had a visit from the shearer.

Three pullets have gone broody and each are setting on some eggs. I don't really want any chicks at this time of the year, but I do really want to know the brooding and mothering abilities of these pullets so they can sit on goose and duck eggs when they start laying this spring.

After much discussion it's been decided that the chicken flock will be culled down significantly to just my favorites and our daughter's pullets. All the other chickens will be butchered or sold. In the future I will probably get some bantams, but for now we will expand the duck flock significantly. Because the drakes have such soft, pleasant voices I'll be able to grow out and keep more males and will actually be able to have a focused breeding program.

The Welsh Harlequin is at the top of my breed list for ducks. I just have to decide now where to acquire stock from. The Holderread's have them straight run and the quality of even their average birds should be great. Metzer's has them as well and offers them sexed, which is awfully convenient but may not be worth the possible reduction in quality. All WH in the US basically come from Holderread's lines.

Then there's the geese to consider. I'd like to get more, either of the Americans or Sebastopols. Holderread's breeds the Americans in Blue and Lavender - the APA accepted color is Buff. It would take 3 generations to get the Buff color back if they were crossed with the other colors. They don't have regular Sebbies, only "Minis" which I'm not interested in. Metzer's has the American Buff (which is where I got my pair from) and the regular Sebbies.

 

[DesertChic]

I usually 'finish' all chickens, even the capons for at least 30 days, with buttermilk and coarse cornmeal. Will sometimes use cooked rice and or oatmeal. Over-kill" perhaps but this is what I find to make my birds especially delicious for my family and of course...me.

When you use oatmeal, do you use the flaked, or steel cut?

 

[DesertChic]

This thread has been busier than I have!

So, a general update on what's going on here:

Five of our 7 female alpacas have given birth for a total of 4 female crias and 1 male cria. We've given up on the 2 remaining adult females - they either absorbed their pregnancies or they were covered at a later date than we observed. We'll be breeding some of them back in the spring, ideally after they've had a visit from the shearer.

Three pullets have gone broody and each are setting on some eggs. I don't really want any chicks at this time of the year, but I do really want to know the brooding and mothering abilities of these pullets so they can sit on goose and duck eggs when they start laying this spring.

After much discussion it's been decided that the chicken flock will be culled down significantly to just my favorites and our daughter's pullets. All the other chickens will be butchered or sold. In the future I will probably get some bantams, but for now we will expand the duck flock significantly. Because the drakes have such soft, pleasant voices I'll be able to grow out and keep more males and will actually be able to have a focused breeding program.

The Welsh Harlequin is at the top of my breed list for ducks. I just have to decide now where to acquire stock from. The Holderread's have them straight run and the quality of even their average birds should be great. Metzer's has them as well and offers them sexed, which is awfully convenient but may not be worth the possible reduction in quality. All WH in the US basically come from Holderread's lines.

Then there's the geese to consider. I'd like to get more, either of the Americans or Sebastopols. Holderread's breeds the Americans in Blue and Lavender - the APA accepted color is Buff. It would take 3 generations to get the Buff color back if they were crossed with the other colors. They don't have regular Sebbies, only "Minis" which I'm not interested in. Metzer's has the American Buff (which is where I got my pair from) and the regular Sebbies.

So what do you do in your spare time?

Just kidding.