BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[hellbender]

Geesh! I started a pointed conversation that just fell short of a riot. If you checked my record keeping, you would see that I am not even close to being a professionalist. I always question my own efforts and never try to be the director of the band so to speak.
Protein levels and feed always seem to be a controversial subject matter that even the best professionals dont always agree on in my opinion. I take what most of them have to say with a grain of salt but in full context. In other words, I listen. As I can see, most of you people have your own game plan also and dont find cold hard facts to hold water! Some of us are a little more up on it than others while some beginners are still experimenting or tinkering. I actually learned a few things from this debated conversation and will heed what has been said on some points. Good to share on this subject!

 

[hellbender]

Apparently I'm being too generous in doling out "ovations", so instead I just do this:

I ran out too!

 

[cyborg]

Good point! I always forget that alfalfa is a legume. 

I typically sprout some alfalfa seeds for them in the winter time, but haven't conditioned my (rock) dirt sufficiently yet for alfalfa to grow well here. It's on the list though. Until then, I'll probably be picking up a few bales of alfalfa for them to eat and play with. If those bales are anything like the wheat and barley straw bales I bought earlier in the year, I wind up with some sprouting on my property is a bonus. 

Since my chickens decided to eat all the kale I'd grown for them in one fell swoop, I've started sprouting seeds early this year, starting with sunflower seeds, wheat grass, oats, and a mixture of clover + alfalfa + radish. I've also started sprouting some new kale and Swiss Chard indoors where they can't get to them. If I can get the aquaponics set up soon enough I'll transplant into that, but otherwise I'll transplant them into my raised beds AFTER adding bird mesh around my garden. 

Try some buckwheat. The chickens love it.

 

[Beer can]

Doesn't eating liver up your iron?

 

[ronott1]

Doesn't eating liver up your iron?

Here is a list!

You can reduce your risk of iron deficiency anemia by choosing iron-rich foods.
Choose iron-rich foods

Foods rich in iron include:

• Red meat
• Pork
• Poultry
• Seafood
• Beans
• Dark green leafy vegetables, such as spinach
• Dried fruit, such as raisins and apricots
• Iron-fortified cereals, breads and pastas
• Peas

Your body absorbs more iron from meat than it does from other sources. If you choose to not eat meat, you may need to increase your intake of iron-rich, plant-based foods to absorb the same amount of iron as someone who eats meat.
Choose foods containing vitamin C to enhance iron absorption

You can enhance your body's absorption of iron by drinking citrus juice or eating other foods rich in vitamin C at the same time that you eat high-iron foods. Vitamin C in citrus juices, like orange juice, helps your body to better absorb dietary iron.
Vitamin C is also found in:

• Broccoli
• Grapefruit
• Kiwi
• Leafy greens
• Melons
• Oranges
• Peppers
• Strawberries
• Tangerines
• Tomatoes

 

[Beer can]

This is outstanding information! One thing I wonder about though....are the 20%+ higher protein diets as detrimental when the chickens are also given complete access to green forage? I only ask because I've noticed that even as chicks, my birds will sometimes consume more of the chicken feed and other days barely touch it in favor of grass and veggies. When given all options, it at least appears to me that they may know what to do to maintain optimal health. 

X2
Mine right now are getting hugemungus zucchini and pumpkin.

 

[bnjrob]

Geesh! I started a pointed conversation that just fell short of a riot. If you checked my record keeping, you would see that I am not even close to being a professionalist. I always question my own efforts and never try to be the director of the band so to speak.
Protein levels and feed always seem to be a controversial subject matter that even the best professionals dont always agree on in my opinion. I take what most of them have to say with a grain of salt but in full context. In other words, I listen. As I can see, most of you people have your own game plan also and dont find cold hard facts to hold water! Some of us are a little more up on it than others while some beginners are still experimenting or tinkering. I actually learned a few things from this debated conversation and will heed what has been said on some points. Good to share on this subject!

I don't think I'm discounting any "cold hard facts". I like facts and documentation to support or disprove them. But I also believe that there are many facts that are absolute only in that particular situation which never ever changes. But life is not static and there is constant change, whether we can see the change or not.

No matter how well a scientific study is put together, it is not possible for the scientist to plan for every variable and contingency. Nor would it be feasible to try to conduct a study that DID plan for more than a certain number of variables. A reputable scientist can hypothesize, conduct their study, and analyze the data that he has, but the results are only going to be absolute when the exact same minute variables exist every time, without fail - which is never. One tiny variable can make a huge difference in the data results, making it impossible to apply the data in a regimented manner across every single situation and thinking that the results will always be the same.

So yes, someone may have decided that there is a correlation between a certain level of protein in feed that can cause bleeding. But this will only happen when every condition is met to allow it to happen. The thing about raising poultry is that 2+2 doesn't always equal 4. And try as these feed companies might, they can only base things on what they find works in their little laboratories and hope that the results will work for a majority of people without causing harm. And that only happens if the results of their studies have not been skewed by biases held by the investigators (which is hard to do because everyone tends to have biases even when they think they don't). And if you throw money into the mix - money can make data be skewed, lost, changed, and made up. When a company bases all their information on their own data, without any 3rd, disinterested party corroboration - that company has a vested interest in making people believe that everything they say is gospel. Otherwise they could lose money and really piss off their shareholders.

 

[hellbender]

I don't think I'm discounting any "cold hard facts". I like facts and documentation to support or disprove them. But I also believe that there are many facts that are absolute only in that particular situation which never ever changes. But life is not static and there is constant change, whether we can see the change or not.

No matter how well a scientific study is put together, it is not possible for the scientist to plan for every variable and contingency. Nor would it be feasible to try to conduct a study that DID plan for more than a certain number of variables. A reputable scientist can hypothesize, conduct their study, and analyze the data that he has, but the results are only going to be absolute when the exact same minute variables exist every time, without fail - which is never. One tiny variable can make a huge difference in the data results, making it impossible to apply the data in a regimented manner across every single situation and thinking that the results will always be the same.

So yes, someone may have decided that there is a correlation between a certain level of protein in feed that can cause bleeding. But this will only happen when every condition is met to allow it to happen. The thing about raising poultry is that 2+2 doesn't always equal 4. And try as these feed companies might, they can only base things on what they find works in their little laboratories and hope that the results will work for a majority of people without causing harm. And that only happens if the results of their studies have not been skewed by biases held by the investigators (which is hard to do because everyone tends to have biases even when they think they don't). And if you throw money into the mix - money can make data be skewed, lost, changed, and made up. When a company bases all their information on their own data, without any 3rd, disinterested party corroboration - that company has a vested interest in making people believe that everything they say is gospel. Otherwise they could lose money and really piss off their shareholders.

 

[Our Roost]

money can make data be skewed, lost, changed, and made up. When a company bases all their information on their own data, without any 3rd, disinterested party corroboration - that company has a vested interest in making people believe that everything they say is gospel. Otherwise they could lose money and really piss off their shareholders.


Here is your answer!!!!

 

[Our Roost]

This spring I started adding pure oats and scratch together for a morning filler and treat. The oats have a fair amount of protein and the 2 together seem to satisfy them for the mornings.