BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[Beer can]

We like a big bird, family of seven. If the bird isn't big enough I don't get much. Never any left overs even with the biggest. Dw won't cook two birds.

 

[Kusanar]

Did the cat get your tongue? That's the 2nd blank post from you I've seen today!

 

[dfr1973]

Eloquent as always? BTW, your instincts were right on my waiting too long to effectively caponize the October batch. No capons, 3 slips, and 4 pullets. It will likely take me all year to get a good enough feel on which are cockerels and pullets, and which show grow-out potential versus which to caponize or sell.

 

[Our Roost]

It is fantastic that you mention size. I conversed with several mentors of sorts before converging on my project birds. My goal to them was not always about how fast I could get birds to the table, but at what size I could and would get them to the table. Makes sense that if you can eat a bird before its full maturity, why not? Funny, but when I grocery shop for a whole chicken, it always comes up between 4-5 1/2 lbs. Sometimes I buy a smaller bird and we get a half chicken each. Breast, leg and thigh meat is important as that's what most people zero in on. Some dual purpose birds fit that bill very nicely. Boy, if you can utilize the Cornish to improve another breed, why not?

 

[neopolitancrazy]

[quote name="DesertChic" url="/t/845018/breeding-for-production-eggs-and-or-meat/7440#post_16418533Other edible fish options include Trout and Bass, but those do better in colder climates
[/quote]

Trout are cold-water fish, bass are WARM water fish, as I learned while living in the Ozarks.
Angela

 

[neopolitancrazy]

...One question: are you aware of the importance of selecting for earlier feathering?...it should help you determine growth rate of individual birds within the first couple of weeks rather than waiting months for them to grow out.  

Anthony

Where did you come by that information? I started raising a new strain last season, and their feather growth rates were all over the place, but did not correlate with carcass growth rates. None of the reading I did last year, (and I read everything I could find on feathering,) suggested a link to growth rate other than the fact that naked chicks in a cold environment will expend a lot of their energy on keeping warm.

In growing out strains with uniform feathering rates, I still have experienced great disparity in carcass growth rates.

Just wondering,
Angela

 

[NanaKat]

Someone asked earlier how many boiled quail eggs would fit in a pint jar.
I put 35 - 40 in the jar with what I'm using to spice the pickled eggs and cover with boiling vinegar.


For lunch today used some for deviled eggs....actually used a baby feeding spoon to fill the tiny egg halves.

 

[AnthNDacula]

I agree I'm not sure why the goal for home grown chicken has to be a humongous turkey sized bird. I'm leaning towards smaller is better (who wants to eat the same chicken all week?) and I've been wondering if crossing bantam to standard cornish might be an idea. Or bantam cornish over dorking............

Heritage Cornish/Indian Game was a very popular cross in Britain and America prior to the CornishX era. The Indian Game was crossed over many breeds to improve breast quality in the offspring of hens who laid more eggs than the Game. Dorkings and Sussex were both popular hens to breed to in Britain back then. According to my studies this cross gave a nice breast to the offspring... although possibly no better than either parent breed if well bread. Growth rate doesn't seem to have been any better than either parent breed as long as they were all from good meat production lines. The advantages the cross provides were higher rates of fertility, hatch-ability, and survivability to butchering age. Growth rate for all the birds seems to have been fairly slow.

I've been focussing my reading on books from before 1950 and authors who worked with dual purpose breeds, so my information is dated. But in fairness I believe those were the people who knew these breeds best. Another tidbit I've gleaned from my study is that dual purpose birds were more selectively bread for their meat qualities back then, so that while you see a scrawny looking carcass today on a Barred Rock or Wyandotte, many of those birds produced a significantly prettier carcass with a fuller breast than to same breeds do today. That's why I'm so intrigued by Beekissed's White Rocks. They seem to be more like the old birds I've been reading about.

 

[AnthNDacula]

Where did you come by that information? I started raising a new strain last season, and their feather growth rates were all over the place, but did not correlate with carcass growth rates. None of the reading I did last year, (and I read everything I could find on feathering,) suggested a link to growth rate other than the fact that naked chicks in a cold environment will expend a lot of their energy on keeping warm.

In growing out strains with uniform feathering rates, I still have experienced great disparity in carcass growth rates.

Just wondering,
Angela

Hi Angela,

I've been reading all over the place, but I feel like it was in a 1951 bulletin written by Asmundson and Lerner called "Breeding Chickens for Meat Production". It's in the public domain, so you can find it online. Again my information is dated, but I don't think there is much better available on dual purpose breeds since the appearance of the CornishX. It is possible that breeds/strains have become so degraded since then that early feathering doesn't correspond to growth rate much anymore. However it was something people selected for to improve their birds in the past and I suspect
is worth looking at again. I feel like all advances in chickens I'm interested in was stopped in it's tracks about 50 years ago. Please share any sources you may have found.

 

[CanadianBuckeye]

Hi Angela,

I've been reading all over the place, but I feel like it was in a 1951 bulletin written by Asmundson and Lerner called "Breeding Chickens for Meat Production". It's in the public domain, so you can find it online. Again my information is dated, but I don't think there is much better available on dual purpose breeds since the appearance of the CornishX. It is possible that breeds/strains have become so degraded since then that early feathering doesn't correspond to growth rate much anymore. However it was something people selected for to improve their birds in the past and I suspect
is worth looking at again. I feel like all advances in chickens I'm interested in was stopped in it's tracks about 50 years ago. Please share any sources you may have found.

Heritage Cornish/Indian Game was a very popular cross in Britain and America prior to the CornishX era. The Indian Game was crossed over many breeds to improve breast quality in the offspring of hens who laid more eggs than the Game. Dorkings and Sussex were both popular hens to breed to in Britain back then. According to my studies this cross gave a nice breast to the offspring... although possibly no better than either parent breed if well bread. Growth rate doesn't seem to have been any better than either parent breed as long as they were all from good meat production lines. The advantages the cross provides were higher rates of fertility, hatch-ability, and survivability to butchering age. Growth rate for all the birds seems to have been fairly slow.

I've been focussing my reading on books from before 1950 and authors who worked with dual purpose breeds, so my information is dated. But in fairness I believe those were the people who knew these breeds best. Another tidbit I've gleaned from my study is that dual purpose birds were more selectively bread for their meat qualities back then, so that while you see a scrawny looking carcass today on a Barred Rock or Wyandotte, many of those birds produced a significantly prettier carcass with a fuller breast than to same breeds do today. That's why I'm so intrigued by Beekissed's White Rocks. They seem to be more like the old birds I've been reading about.

Respectfully, I don't think the chickens were better back then- my thoughts are that the expectations were different than today. Just like a 140 egg layer per year was once considered good, the same might be true for meat birds. I can't seem to find any pictures of the dressed chickens from The chicken of Today competition- might be very enlightening. The 1957 meat bird would have been an improvement. I did find this:
(Sorry I can't seem to find a way to cut the first picture, it's too small to read)