BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[Beer can]

@CanadianBuckeye Greenfirefarms bred production RIR into their Rhodebars, and they were still Rhodebars. Beautiful birds.

 

[ronott1]

@CanadianBuckeye Greenfirefarms bred production RIR into their Rhodebars, and they were still Rhodebars. Beautiful birds.

Rhodebars were created from RIRs and Barred rocks--you can breed back to both "parents" and be fine. There is a process to what you breed for the next generations to get back to rhodebar.

How did it work for GFF?

 

[jbkirk]

I made mine for $35.00 or less. Are you handy? Mine runs with-in .8 degrees of 99.5ºF. I used a lower water heater unit. Instructions below and videos on website.
I turn my eggs by hand, essentially pulling the roller from one side of the incubator to the other. I have two incubators. One to incubate and one to hatch. Like I have said before, my eggs go in every six days and three cycles later they come out into the hatcher at 18 days.
works for me. I have never lost one of my 85+ live chicks after they come out of the hatcher. I euthanized one, one died coming out of the shell. After they hatch, they rock and roll.

Is that a styrofoam cooler?

 

[hellbender]

Rhodebars were created from RIRs and Barred rocks--you can breed back to both "parents" and be fine. There is a process to what you breed for the next generations to get back to rhodebar.

How did it work for GFF?

Ron...it sounds like you know something. If so, would you mind divulging the info. to either the thread or to me, by PM?

Thanks for your time

RON

 

[Beer can]

Rhodebars were created from RIRs and Barred rocks--you can breed back to both "parents" and be fine. There is a process to what you breed for the next generations to get back to rhodebar.

How did it work for GFF?

If I remember right it was RIR and a now extinct breed that developed the Rhodebars. Their write up on them said it helped out a lot. There was a very small genetic base and they were being too closely bred. Your guess is as good as mine though, they no longer carry them.... The ones I still see on Ebay from GFF line are nice looking birds.

 

[ronott1]

If I remember right it was RIR and a now extinct breed that developed the Rhodebars. Their write up on them said it helped out a lot. There was a very small genetic base and they were being too closely bred. Your guess is as good as mine though, they no longer carry them.... The ones I still see on Ebay from GFF line are nice looking birds.

GFF not carrying them anymore likely answers the question!

I would not trust them to breed the next generations correctly. It is tough and good breeding is rare.

I did find that there were two types of rhodebars created. Oneline was in Essex and one is sussex. They were burbar x RIR and Barred plymouth rock and RIR.

busbars were made from Barred plymouth rocks and brown sussex. My guess is that we have a big mix of genes so you really cannot easily cross back to a parent and get good results.

I need to see how papa brooder is doing with his rhodebar project. He was using Heritage RIRs for his project.

 

[Kassaundra]

Certainly you could recreate a breed of chicken thru intensive selection but would that recreation have all the hidden genetic value of the original breed? For example take the Fayoumi which has thrived in the face of Mareks for centuries. (SP?) You might be able to create a bird that looks and even acts like it but would that bird have all the unique genes inherent in the original? The Fayoumi probably has genes we'll never even know about... resistance to any number of diseases that live in the marshes around the Nile River. But when a mosquito travels in a water filled, ballast tank from Egypt to California and starts infecting all the California chickens with an exotic, new strain of Mareks disease, the cure might just be in the original Fayoumi... but not in the recreation.

I don't think anyone is implying or stating you can take non "xyz" breed and come up w/ a genetic "xyz" that breeds true w/ the genetic nuance of the "xyz" breed. But that you may be able to come up w/ an "xyz" look alike that can then compete and win at shows as an "xyz" breed. That other show animals are registered and tracked for sire and dame, but that chickens aren't so tracked.

 

[bnjrob]

Quote:
It has been done and there are still SOP breeders out there that will say that if it looks like a duck, then enter it as a duck.

In the early 1900s, the APA changed the SOP for the Mottled Java, citing the change as a way to get rid of cross-breed birds being called Mottled Javas and entered into shows.

I personally do not like the approach to showing poultry as whatever kind of bird it looks like, regardless of it's parentage. I think it dilutes the breed and weakens the heritage of these old breeds that are part of our history. And too many unsuspecting people can wind up unhappy when these *facsimile* birds wind up being spread around and they aren't breeding true and not even coming close to having the offspring looking like the SOP says it should. I nearly had a cow the other day when somebody decided that they didn't like what their hatchery stock RIRs looked like, and after reading an old SOP, they decided they liked the SOP of the Java better than the RIR. So they wanted to breed their production Reds to have the type of a Java, and call their birds *Red Javas*. UGH.

 

[AnthNDacula]

It has been done and there are still SOP breeders out there that will say that if it looks like a duck, then enter it as a duck.

In the early 1900s, the APA changed the SOP for the Mottled Java, citing the change as a way to get rid of cross-breed birds being called Mottled Javas and entered into shows.

I personally do not like the approach to showing poultry as whatever kind of bird it looks like, regardless of it's parentage. I think it dilutes the breed and weakens the heritage of these old breeds that are part of our history. And too many unsuspecting people can wind up unhappy when these *facsimile* birds wind up being spread around and they aren't breeding true and not even coming close to having the offspring looking like the SOP says it should. I nearly had a cow the other day when somebody decided that they didn't like what their hatchery stock RIRs looked like, and after reading an old SOP, they decided they liked the SOP of the Java better than the RIR. So they wanted to breed their production Reds to have the type of a Java, and call their birds *Red Javas*. UGH.

I admire creativity and innovation, but for someone to name a first generation cross "Red Java" is pushing some limits. At most it would be a RIR X Java hybrid and would not breed true. Nothing wrong with that as long as you call a duck a duck. I would think you'd need to have a number of generations of true breeding birds to give them a new name.

 

[bnjrob]

Quote:
The Java has a complex history. I've spent years researching and still have not found every smidgen of info on them in antique poultry and agriculture literature. It is said that a very dark red colored Java was used as foundation to make the RIR. If you have not seen photos of exhibition Reds, they are so dark red they are almost black - not like these reddish orange birds that most people have and call RIRs. So it isn't a stretch for a poorly typed RIR to have a Java body type - and vice versa. This is also true of the Plymouth Rock as they had Javas as a foundation for their creation. I got the feeling from this person's posts - they were looking to capitalize on a novelty name and make money with their little venture. It wasn't even about trying to recreate history and remain true to the breed's heritage at all. As it is, I already have concerns about the current *Auburn* Javas that are out there, as well as the motives of the person that promotes them. Last thing I am in the mood for is a person trying to make a quick buck by labeling crummy birds with the Java name because they are too lazy to get Javas or standard-bred RIRs and learn how to breed them to the SOP.

More and more I am seeing people selling some of the crappiest looking birds online to unsuspecting people and they're making a killing. Most people only see feather color and if the bird has a flashy feather color, that's all they want. They don't look at anything else. They don't care of a bird has a pinched tail or a small chest/abdominal cavity. They don't care if the legs are well set and sturdy instead of being too skinny to hold the bird's weight safely or being bowlegged. They don't care if the bird even comes close to what it should look like, as long as it has feathers that capture their attention. And every time I see someone selling *show quality* chicks - I want to freaking scream. But these low-information folks are the kinds of buyers that keep these disingenuous and sometimes overtly dishonest poultry sellers in business.