BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[ronott1]

You may want to consult an incubation text, I seem to remember that malpositions may be caused by incorrect temperature during incubation, and that seems like a fairly high percentage of your hatch.
Angela

Mal position is usually because they died before they got into position. It is not often the cause of death.

You are correct about temperature! It is the number one cause of late hatch death.

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

You may want to consult an incubation text, I seem to remember that malpositions may be caused by incorrect temperature during incubation, and that seems like a fairly high percentage of your hatch.
Angela

Good idea about the heating pad- pricey but will probably save electricity costs. Your chicks do look content!
I found out that it's not worth helping chicks out of the shell- they are weak for a reason and it's tougher to cull a weakling day old than one in the shell - and you definitely don't want to have anything less than the strongest and healthiest chicks or your flock will suffer for it in the long run.
"Don't hatch if you can't dispatch" was some very good advice that I keep in the back of my mind, sadly it's very true even though difficult. I actually find it harder to cull the older birds- especially the older cockerels :-( (unless they are mean).

The heating pad isn't pricey at all - just a low tech Sunbeam (no auto-off feature) bungee corded to a frame of left over hardware cloth, covered in an old pillow case an cloth baby diapers.

(I had VERY bad experiences with a heating lamp...)

Yes, regarding the malpositions, I've been working under the guidance of Sally Sunshine (incubating/hatching guru here on BYC), and have done lots of reading. Of note, all but one were from a single pullet (Jenny) - she lays round eggs. I took the chance incubating them anyway (though I had read of the risk) - 60% (3/5) of her eggs were malpos, and the main issue with all the malpo eggs was that they did not lose weight/increase air cell as much as they should have (the other eggs were totally fine, almost a bit big in the air cell department) - that can inhibit their ability to get in the right position. All that being said, several of us on the Incubating with Friends thread with the same incubator (R-Com 20) have had unusually high percentages of malpos. We suspect there may be something with the way the eggs are turned (horizontal rolling - questioning the angles). I'm going to run drier next time, and in another incubator (and hatch in R-Com). I have a batch of shipped NN eggs in the Brinsea now, due to go into lock down next week...

I assisted each of the malpos with the understanding that 1) they won't make it without my help, so there is nothing to lose 2) they might not make it even if I tried, and 3) if they make it, I may need to cull anyway. And, honestly, it was educational. I had already set up my plan/system to euthanize chicks before even setting the eggs - so I was ready and aware that that is part of the process. The others that I helped out are doing quite well so far - hard to predict (though by the end, after halfway in, I was sure enough that things would go bad with this last one that if I had to do it again, I would have euthanized that one in the egg).

- Ant Farm

 

[ronott1]

The heating pad isn't pricey at all - just a low tech Sunbeam (no auto-off feature) bungee corded to a frame of left over hardware cloth, covered in an old pillow case an cloth baby diapers.

(I had VERY bad experiences with a heating lamp...)

Yes, regarding the malpositions, I've been working under the guidance of Sally Sunshine (incubating/hatching guru here on BYC), and have done lots of reading. Of note, all but one were from a single pullet (Jenny) - she lays round eggs. I took the chance incubating them anyway (though I had read of the risk) - 60% (3/5) of her eggs were malpos, and the main issue with all the malpo eggs was that they did not lose weight/increase air cell as much as they should have (the other eggs were totally fine, almost a bit big in the air cell department) - that can inhibit their ability to get in the right position. All that being said, several of us on the Incubating with Friends thread with the same incubator (R-Com 20) have had unusually high percentages of malpos. We suspect there may be something with the way the eggs are turned (horizontal rolling - questioning the angles). I'm going to run drier next time, and in another incubator (and hatch in R-Com). I have a batch of shipped NN eggs in the Brinsea now, due to go into lock down next week...

I assisted each of the malpos with the understanding that 1) they won't make it without my help, so there is nothing to lose 2) they might not make it even if I tried, and 3) if they make it, I may need to cull anyway. And, honestly, it was educational. I had already set up my plan/system to euthanize chicks before even setting the eggs - so I was ready and aware that that is part of the process. The others that I helped out are doing quite well so far - hard to predict (though by the end, after halfway in, I was sure enough that things would go bad with this last one that if I had to do it again, I would have euthanized that one in the egg).

- Ant Farm

What day of incubation did the malpositioned chicks die?

After that is answered, find out on what day chicks move into position for hatching.

If you want help on this, let me know. I doubt that turning is the cause.

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

What day of incubation did the malpositioned chicks die?

After that is answered, find out on what day chicks move into position for hatching.

If you want help on this, let me know. I doubt that turning is the cause.

Only one chick died in the shell - after externally pipping on day 20-21. Had the lethal malposition #2 (beak away from air cell). The other malpositions all externally pipped - one partially zipped, then stopped halfway - I helped finish the zip. The other three were butt-up position (malposition #4), externally pipped, and I helped out. One has moderately spraddled legs (I'm seeing if it will correct in the first couple days with a hobble - if not, will cull), the other two are totally fine and I can't tell them apart now (except I marked the toes with a Sharpie). Set 16 eggs, one infertile, no deaths during incubation - 15 went into lock down. Temps solid the whole time - I set at 99.5F. On day 21h, one died after pipping away from shell, and three needed help getting out (one of whom I decided to cull). Upon review of detailed info, all of these are more common in round eggs incubated horizontally.

- Ant Farm

 

[ronott1]

Only one chick died in the shell - after externally pipping on day 20-21. Had the lethal malposition #2 (beak away from air cell). The other malpositions all externally pipped - one partially zipped, then stopped halfway - I helped finish the zip. The other three were butt-up position (malposition #4), externally pipped, and I helped out. One has moderately spraddled legs (I'm seeing if it will correct in the first couple days with a hobble - if not, will cull), the other two are totally fine and I can't tell them apart now (except I marked the toes with a Sharpie). Set 16 eggs, one infertile, no deaths during incubation - 15 went into lock down. Temps solid the whole time - I set at 99.5F. On day 21h, one died after pipping away from shell, and three needed help getting out (one of whom I decided to cull). Upon review of detailed info, all of these are more common in round eggs incubated horizontally.

- Ant Farm

I looked it up and there are things to work on. Try not to focus on one of them as there are multiple causes. I also notice that there are nutritional causes as well--Do not ignore that even if you are fermenting the feed.


The causes go from most common to least common.

Work on them in order.

From a production point of view, if you know one of your hens has this problem more often than the others, do not use her for breeding.

 

[CanadianBuckeye]

Only one chick died in the shell - after externally pipping on day 20-21. Had the lethal malposition #2 (beak away from air cell). The other malpositions all externally pipped - one partially zipped, then stopped halfway - I helped finish the zip. The other three were butt-up position (malposition #4), externally pipped, and I helped out. One has moderately spraddled legs (I'm seeing if it will correct in the first couple days with a hobble - if not, will cull), the other two are totally fine and I can't tell them apart now (except I marked the toes with a Sharpie). Set 16 eggs, one infertile, no deaths during incubation - 15 went into lock down. Temps solid the whole time - I set at 99.5F. On day 21h, one died after pipping away from shell, and three needed help getting out (one of whom I decided to cull). Upon review of detailed info, all of these are more common in round eggs incubated horizontally.

- Ant Farm

Being a bit of the Devil's advocate here, but since this is the production thread....... why set eggs that may perpetuate chicks that retain this characteristic? Wouldn't you want to breed it out? Just curious.

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

I looked it up and there are things to work on. Try not to focus on one of them as there are multiple causes. I also notice that there are nutritional causes as well--Do not ignore that even if you are fermenting the feed.


The causes go from most common to least common.

Work on them in order.

From a production point of view, if you know one of your hens has this problem more often than the others, do not use her for breeding.

Thanks! This is also what I had found in my own reading. There are a number of issues to work on... I know I had (a) (the R-Com incubates horizontally) and (f). Humidity was set low (35%), but some folks run even lower than that. Because the other folks with malpositions in the R-Com did not have a good reason for it, the issue of the R-Com itself came up (b). I believe their nutrition was good, though they didn't get the full month of coming "into condition" because of the rooster injury - but I wouldn't have expected a pullet-specific outcome with that, as they all eat the same feed. The shipped NN eggs that are on day 14 right now had really rough handling by USPS, and the air cells are a mess - incubating them air cell up with gentle turning, and will hatch upright, but expecting some of these to be malpositioned as well...

Being a bit of the Devil's advocate here, but since this is the production thread....... why set eggs that may perpetuate chicks that retain this characteristic? Wouldn't you want to breed it out? Just curious.

You have an excellent point. I had not originally been planning to set her eggs, or at least I was going to try individual pairing hatches with a small test hatch for her. But Dumbledore was injured, and I had a fear response that he wouldn't be able to breed after his injury, and I just set all the eggs for the next week. I only have three cream legbar pullets, and there's something non-optimal about each of all three - the rooster is the best of the bunch. Interestingly, the two (non-malpositioned) girls that came out of her eggs have perfect auto sexing marks, best of the group. (Argh!) All the malpositioned ones were boys.

It's easier when you have more birds to choose from...

- Ant Farm

 

[jbkirk]

It's easier when you have more birds to choose from...

- Ant Farm

You can say that again. I'm TRYING to get a white tail feather gene out of my beilefelders but it is hard when all your cocks have it...

 

[CanadianBuckeye]

You can say that again. I'm TRYING to get a white tail feather gene out of my beilefelders but it is hard when all your cocks have it...

Too bad they aren't cream legbars ;-)

JB I hear you - had a similar problem, different breed- only 3 dark Cornish roosters, all with major flaws- which one to pick? AArghhh.
I'm looking forward to creating my own breed- on my bucket list- I get to make the Standard!

 

[stryker]

I still have 2 broody hens, Should I throw 6 eggs under each one so they will stop being broody in 21 days.