BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[CanadianBuckeye]

That's what I did and I think it's the easier choice in many ways...a breed that fits your goals, climate and flock keeping methods is so less stressful and enjoyable than trying to reinvent the wheel from a square block of wood. Quite a bit of carving to be done in that case and it can wear a person out...and it's wearing to even watch it from the forum. One wants to reach through the computer and shake a person as they lament their choices for years and say, "Well....choose another breed!!!".

I chose the Plymouth White Rock for many reasons, all fine qualities, but first and foremost my goal was to have a true dual purpose bird...a breed that lays very well and also grows much meat. As people tamper with the respective dual purpose breeds I often feel like the true dual purpose becomes lost to either one side or the other, so having a breed that manages to keep both in exceptionally good balance is very important to me. I'm too old and too laid back to want the challenge of reinventing the wheel or righting the wrongs of a breed that has slipped too far one way or the other on the dual purpose scale.

This is my goal as well- a bird that's right in the middle. I think that I need to decide which characteristics are common to both and that would be early feathering and fast maturing. It's very interesting to compare Buckeyes with Dark Cornish. I have both breeds, neither are exhibition quality but have had some selection. The Cornish are quite small as chicks, but feather very quickly and their rate of growth is fast. The Buckeyes did catch up though. I'm new to all this, last year was a casual observation year just to get familiar with the breeds so I did not record any data.
The Buckeyes seem to have a slow feathering gene, I haven't figured it out yet if this is just the males or how it expresses itself but if possible I plan to get rid of it. Who needs a chick that needs a heat lamp at 5 weeks? Ugh. The Cornish are meatier and yet lay more, lay earlier and have better shaped eggs than the Buckeyes I have, although the Buckeyes are improving with age (they are a year old) so it might just be a question of how fast they mature. I like these two breeds and plan on sticking with them, it's my bucket list project!

 

[CanadianBuckeye]

Right, you have to keep your breed in mind when setting goals for culling. Like the Brahma was used for a roaster with an ideal butcher age around 6 months. It wouldn't make sense to butcher them out for a fryer at 14 weeks, just as it wouldn't make sense to raise a Leghorn out to butcher as a roaster at 6 months.

I'm wondering how many of today's Giants would actually make a decent roaster at 6 months now? Same thing with the Cornish- really of what practical use is a bird that takes a year to mature? I know they can do better.

 

[varidgerunner]

Right, you have to keep your breed in mind when setting goals for culling. Like the Brahma was used for a roaster with an ideal butcher age around 6 months. It wouldn't make sense to butcher them out for a fryer at 14 weeks, just as it wouldn't make sense to raise a Leghorn out to butcher as a roaster at 6 months.

I always butchered leghorns from six to 10 weeks. They grow really fast. They don't grow big, but they grow fast. A six month old leghorn has been full grown for a month or two. I have no way to prove it, but I think the extremely fast growth of the broiler chicken comes from the leghorn that is in them. I have too many breeding programs going on, but if I was trying to recreate broiler chicken growth patterns, I would add leghorn.

edit to add: I do get the point you were making though.

 

[cyborg]

 

That's what I did and I think it's the easier choice in many ways...a breed that fits your goals, climate and flock keeping methods is so less stressful and enjoyable than trying to reinvent the wheel from a square block of wood.  Quite a bit of carving to be done in that case and it can wear a person out...and it's wearing to even watch it from the forum.  One wants to reach through the computer and shake a person as they lament their choices for years and say, "Well....choose another breed!!!". 

I chose the Plymouth White Rock for many reasons, all fine qualities, but first and foremost my goal was to have a true dual purpose bird...a breed that lays very well and also grows much meat.   As people tamper with the respective dual purpose breeds I often feel like the true dual purpose becomes lost to either one side or the other, so having a breed that manages to keep both in exceptionally good balance is very important to me.  I'm too old and too laid back to want the challenge of reinventing the wheel or righting the wrongs of a breed that has slipped too far one way or the other on the dual purpose scale. 

This is my goal as well- a bird that's right in the middle. I think that I need to decide which characteristics are common to both and that would be early feathering and fast maturing. It's very interesting to compare Buckeyes with Dark Cornish. I have both breeds, neither are exhibition quality but have had some selection.  The Cornish are quite small as chicks, but feather very quickly and their rate of growth is fast. The Buckeyes did catch up though. I'm new to all this, last year was a casual observation year just to get familiar with the breeds so I did not record any data.
The Buckeyes seem to have a slow feathering gene, I haven't figured it out yet if this is just the males or how it expresses itself but if possible I plan to get rid of it. Who needs a chick that needs a heat lamp at 5 weeks? Ugh. The Cornish are meatier and yet lay more, lay earlier  and have better shaped eggs than the Buckeyes I have, although the Buckeyes are improving with age (they are a year old) so it might just be a question of how fast they mature.  I like these two breeds and plan on sticking with them, it's my bucket list project!

I guess I'm following the path less traveled. Not trying to raise one breed to be all things, but rather, working on two separate flocks, one for eggs, and the other for meat. My main egg breeds are GSL's and California Whites, along with a few fancy egg layers like Ameraucanas and BC Marans. Also some heritage barred Rocks, not the best layers, but they do lay some impressive XL eggs.
Just starting the meat flock with 2 different lines of Cornish X, and some Jersey Giant roosters that I've become to attached to to cull. Still kicking around a third breed (and maybe 4th). Looking at adding light Brahmas primarily, but Javas, White Rocks, and dark Cornish are still hanging in the back of my mind.
Anybody doing any work with Brahmas can jump in and give me some pointers!

 

[CanadianBuckeye]

I guess I'm following the path less traveled. Not trying to raise one breed to be all things, but rather, working on two separate flocks, one for eggs, and the other for meat. My main egg breeds are GSL's and California Whites, along with a few fancy egg layers like Ameraucanas and BC Marans. Also some heritage barred Rocks, not the best layers, but they do lay some impressive XL eggs.
Just starting the meat flock with 2 different lines of Cornish X, and some Jersey Giant roosters that I've become to attached to to cull. Still kicking around a third breed (and maybe 4th). Looking at adding light Brahmas primarily, but Javas, White Rocks, and dark Cornish are still hanging in the back of my mind.
Anybody doing any work with Brahmas can jump in and give me some pointers!

Are you putting all of the meat breeds into one ? Or keeping them as separate breeds?

 

[cyborg]

I guess I'm following the path less traveled. Not trying to raise one breed to be all things, but rather, working on two separate flocks, one for eggs, and the other for meat. My main egg breeds are GSL's and California Whites, along with a few fancy egg layers like Ameraucanas and BC Marans. Also some heritage barred Rocks, not the best layers, but they do lay some impressive XL eggs.

Just starting the meat flock with 2 different lines of Cornish X, and some Jersey Giant roosters that I've become to attached to to cull. Still kicking around a third breed (and maybe 4th). Looking at adding light Brahmas primarily, but Javas, White Rocks, and dark Cornish are still hanging in the back of my mind.

Anybody doing any work with Brahmas can jump in and give me some pointers!

Are you putting all of the meat  breeds into one ?  Or keeping them as separate breeds?

Right now, all breeds are separate, but doing experimental crosses between breeds. One I like so far is a Jersey Giant over a barred Rock, got a barred rooster with a black tail and speckled black and yellow legs. He grew to size MUCH faster than his JG sire. Planning on crossing him back over a JG hen, and seeing if I can keep the faster growth, and maybe developing a sex linked barred Giant?

 

[cyborg]

The wife just informed me that this is HER favorite rooster, probably because of his cocky, strutting, wattle shaking attitude!

 

[Mini Meat]

Quote:

I guess I'm following the path less traveled. Not trying to raise one breed to be all things, but rather, working on two separate flocks, one for eggs, and the other for meat. My main egg breeds are GSL's and California Whites, along with a few fancy egg layers like Ameraucanas and BC Marans. Also some heritage barred Rocks, not the best layers, but they do lay some impressive XL eggs.
Just starting the meat flock with 2 different lines of Cornish X, and some Jersey Giant roosters that I've become to attached to to cull. Still kicking around a third breed (and maybe 4th). Looking at adding light Brahmas primarily, but Javas, White Rocks, and dark Cornish are still hanging in the back of my mind.
Anybody doing any work with Brahmas can jump in and give me some pointers!

Your projects sound fun. Can't wait to hear what the JG's contribute.

We are also going for two flocks one layer, one meat. I have a flock of DC's that I will start trying to improve going forward.

For my meat project:
I have Bresse eggs in the incubator to try out this year. They will be compared to the DC's that hatch out this year. If I ever come across quality NN that are local I will try them as well. A Breeding group will be chosen from the best preforming breed will be kept for pure breeds and the best of the losing breeds pullets and hens will be kept to cross for mad science. The losing cockerels will be culled. I don't want to manage a bunch of pure breeds but do want to do some mad science. I eventually want a meat flock of one pure bred breeding group and a few cross breed hens all in one flock.

For the layer flock:
I have Marans, OE, and whole foods eggs in the bator. I will not be putting all that much effort into these breeds except to cull for vigor, any obvious flaws or deficiency, and only hatching from nice eggs. Tracking egg production is too much work at this time with the meat project being a priority. Maybe in the future.

 

[Mini Meat]

That's what I did and I think it's the easier choice in many ways...a breed that fits your goals, climate and flock keeping methods is so less stressful and enjoyable than trying to reinvent the wheel from a square block of wood. Quite a bit of carving to be done in that case and it can wear a person out...and it's wearing to even watch it from the forum. One wants to reach through the computer and shake a person as they lament their choices for years and say, "Well....choose another breed!!!".

I chose the Plymouth White Rock for many reasons, all fine qualities, but first and foremost my goal was to have a true dual purpose bird...a breed that lays very well and also grows much meat. As people tamper with the respective dual purpose breeds I often feel like the true dual purpose becomes lost to either one side or the other, so having a breed that manages to keep both in exceptionally good balance is very important to me. I'm too old and too laid back to want the challenge of reinventing the wheel or righting the wrongs of a breed that has slipped too far one way or the other on the dual purpose scale.

I believe I have seen pictures of your rocks. They are very nice birds. The work you've put into them shows.

 

[Beer can]

I'm wondering how many of today's Giants would actually make a decent roaster at 6 months now? Same thing with the Cornish- really of what practical use is a bird that takes a year to mature? I know they can do better.

The slower growth of the giants gets their bone/joints/frame big and strong enough to support their weight before they fill out. Reading on the history of giants they believe they were bred larger by inadvertently selling the faster growing birds early, the lankier ones they kept ended up growing out much larger than the faster growing giants and were the ones left for breeding.
NJGC;"Cockerels weighing 9 pounds at 6 months of age, Capons weighing 12 pounds at 7 months, and pullets starting to lay at 6 months."
I butchered one of our cockerels at six months and it was very meaty, huge legs, and tender. They just have large turkey like bones and can pack on much more weight given more time. Capons at 9 months to a yr 16-18 lbs.