BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[Fire Ant Farm]

Thanks everyone, I will stick to the "grab them at night" plan. I've found that in the daytime the first one I can catch by hand, the second I can catch with a net, the third one, fergeddabahdit.

And ha ha haaa! It's funny how everyone talked everyone else into getting naked necks! Pretty soon we'll have to merge the two threads.

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread.... But NNs ARE great for production...

I usually only try to catch them before they are let out for the day - there is an enclosed space I can work in. I don't bother if they are out and about, generally. So, for instance, tomorrow morning when I get weights (which they hate), I do it early before I open the tractor coop door. I can get hold of them easier. I let each one out after weighing him. Door is opened once weights are done...

- Ant Farm

 

[Mini Meat]

I sent S&G an email today as well. Asking if they would consider shipping an order of 100 in lots of 25 to 4 different addresses next year.

Worst they can say is no.
I suspect they deal more with growers and probably won't be concerned with servicing a group of home breeders.

If they say yes then between the NN thread and this one I have no doubt we can put together a group of buyers.

I'm not going to hold my breath, but I will cross my fingers. You don't ask, you don't get right.

 

[Mini Meat]

Yeah I get what you're saying. I really regret not immediately getting more NN chicks or hatching the eggs from my first NN hen- she really was very big and heavy. Never weighed her, and you know memory can get disorted, she was probably past 10 lbs. I had assumed that was typical of the breed so I just held off, thinking it was simple matter of ordering again in the future and getting ones more or less like her. Big mistake.

I had worked on a LF line for several generations and got them to a good size and laying big eggs. Then I got overwhelmed and decided to reduce the flock by both letting some breeds and project lines go and merging some traits into fewer lines. I crossed this LF line with a mixed 'standard size' line thinking it would throw some big birds... again, big mistake.

So now I am both trying to breed that line to see if I can regain the large size and also a separate line with birds bought as CX from feed store.. however turns out they were of slow growing broiler strain. Not what I wanted, maybe a blessing in disguise though.. want to get them large but still want them to do all the normal chicken things without special care.

Part of me likes the idea of getting SG stock and if they make me happy, I can just be done with most of the other projects, particularly the LF ones that still work on their weights and growth.

Isn't that the thing with chicken breeding. It takes many generations to build them up and only one to make them fall apart. You can't keep everything so decisions must be made. But with a chickens crazy and variable genetics,...it feels like it's always just a best guess. I think kicking yourself and second guessing your choices come with the territory.

Breeding chickens is a fun and tasty hobby for me but I'm sure glad I don't have to do it for a living.

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

I sent S&G an email today as well. Asking if they would consider shipping an order of 100 in lots of 25 to 4 different addresses next year.

Worst they can say is no.
I suspect they deal more with growers and probably won't be concerned with servicing a group of home breeders.

If they say yes then between the NN thread and this one I have no doubt we can put together a group of buyers.

I'm not going to hold my breath, but I will cross my fingers. You don't ask, you don't get right.

Hey, that's an idea - hadn't thought of that. We'll see what they say. I had nightmares last night about raising 100 chickens - my subconscious mind was screaming what my conscious mind should have already realized, that I don't have enough property/room to raise 100 meat chickens humanely.

I'll need to find folks to share...

- Ant Farm

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

OK, I got 18 week weights of the boys this morning. I'm pleased to see that the GNH boys (orange lines) are back on the way up (though when I see something like the Black GNH's line, going down then up, I also wonder about a weighing error - they do squirm some). They've gotten some BOSS and everyone has been put on Feather Fixer (though they are only just now getting through the older feed to the Feather Fixer pellets in the feeder). There are still lots of orange feathers (including new ones under the roost this week), so they're still molting. Not much in the way of white/grey feathers that I can tell, matching Chunky Monkey's continued gain (dark red line). I haven't really seen any overt bullying this weekend - and after weighing this AM (which happens in the coop before I let them out, and which they hate), they are roaming their paddock this morning (which they had gotten away from doing). So perhaps they are beginning to get over whatever funk they are in...



I've got five crowing boys right now (mercifully, only Monkey is crowing in that coop, so I don't have eight crowers). The young ones seem to want to crow in the middle of the day and also not stop as quickly as the more mature roosters, who are more selective (usually) when and how much they crow - has anyone else seen this? Regardless, it's a bit of a noisy place right now. (No neighbor complaints... yet...)

I wish I had the energy to weigh everybody every week (or every other week) even as adults. It gives me a heads up earlier if they're hiding illness and losing weight, and it let's me get my hands on each weighed bird regularly. I think going forward I will try to get to where I begin doing this with all the birds I raise. It's a lot of work, but I think worth it (and a reasonable goal for a relatively small chicken yard).

- Ant Farm

 

[Kev]

Isn't that the thing with chicken breeding. It takes many generations to build them up and only one to make them fall apart. You can't keep everything so decisions must be made. But with a chickens crazy and variable genetics,...it feels like it's always just a best guess. I think kicking yourself and second guessing your choices come with the territory.

Breeding chickens is a fun and tasty hobby for me but I'm sure glad I don't have to do it for a living.

That is so true, wish I would stop learning that particular lesson the hard way, ha. I do cringe now at the talk of bringing new blood to an established flock/line that is performing well.

Part of the problem is you can arrive at two similar looking birds in different ways. A good example are white rocks, there are separate lines that are based on dominant OR recessive white. Superficially similar yet genetically different. "what" makes a line look good can have different "whats" from another line. Put them together and......... could be yikes! could be yay! Usually the former it seems though.

btw excellent idea on how to split the chick order.

 

[CanadianBuckeye]

I have a somewhat gruesome question but it's to ensure the most humane method of killing for eating while getting the best meat quality. I'm doing as much research as I can so the rooster has a stay of execution until I'm sure about all this. In the meantime he has started to crow :-/ so it's almost time.
I've been reading that when you cut the veins and let the chicken bleed out, you get more blood out of the meat than if you chop the head off. I also watched a video where someone cut the throat and then immediately stuck the knife into the brain through the mouth, killing the chicken instantly so they didn't wait to die by bleeding to death. That looked pretty humane for the chicken.
I really have to do a good job with this first chicken, the meat cannot be gamey and in fact the more it tastes like commercial chicken the better, or it will be tough to get my husband to eat any more of our chickens.
Does killing the chicken instantly after cutting its throat ensure less blood in the meat, or is that about the same as just chopping off the head? My guess is that just bleeding gives you the best meat, is there really any difference?
Does brining reduce gamey taste?

 

[CanadianBuckeye]

OK, I got 18 week weights of the boys this morning. I'm pleased to see that the GNH boys (orange lines) are back on the way up (though when I see something like the Black GNH's line, going down then up, I also wonder about a weighing error - they do squirm some). They've gotten some BOSS and everyone has been put on Feather Fixer (though they are only just now getting through the older feed to the Feather Fixer pellets in the feeder). There are still lots of orange feathers (including new ones under the roost this week), so they're still molting. Not much in the way of white/grey feathers that I can tell, matching Chunky Monkey's continued gain (dark red line). I haven't really seen any overt bullying this weekend - and after weighing this AM (which happens in the coop before I let them out, and which they hate), they are roaming their paddock this morning (which they had gotten away from doing). So perhaps they are beginning to get over whatever funk they are in...



I've got five crowing boys right now (mercifully, only Monkey is crowing in that coop, so I don't have eight crowers). The young ones seem to want to crow in the middle of the day and also not stop as quickly as the more mature roosters, who are more selective (usually) when and how much they crow - has anyone else seen this? Regardless, it's a bit of a noisy place right now. (No neighbor complaints... yet...)

I wish I had the energy to weigh everybody every week (or every other week) even as adults. It gives me a heads up earlier if they're hiding illness and losing weight, and it let's me get my hands on each weighed bird regularly. I think going forward I will try to get to where I begin doing this with all the birds I raise. It's a lot of work, but I think worth it (and a reasonable goal for a relatively small chicken yard).

- Ant Farm

Good job with those weights!! Interesting to see how they have developed. I'm curious why you have stopped weighing the top 3?

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

Quote:
The top three grey lines are for reference - they are actually age matched weights of the three largest hatchery Naked Neck cockerels from this past Fall. So you can see how much bigger/faster they grew... I kept two of them (the very top one is Snape, and another is Tank). Apoc, the third, attacked me one too many times and was, therefore, delicious.

- Ant Farm

 

[DesertChic]

I have a somewhat gruesome question but it's to ensure the most humane method of killing for eating while getting the best meat quality. I'm doing as much research as I can so the rooster has a stay of execution until I'm sure about all this. In the meantime he has started to crow :-/ so it's almost time.
I've been reading that when you cut the veins and let the chicken bleed out, you get more blood out of the meat than if you chop the head off. I also watched a video where someone cut the throat and then immediately stuck the knife into the brain through the mouth, killing the chicken instantly so they didn't wait to die by bleeding to death. That looked pretty humane for the chicken.
I really have to do a good job with this first chicken, the meat cannot be gamey and in fact the more it tastes like commercial chicken the better, or it will be tough to get my husband to eat any more of our chickens.
Does killing the chicken instantly after cutting its throat ensure less blood in the meat, or is that about the same as just chopping off the head? My guess is that just bleeding gives you the best meat, is there really any difference?
Does brining reduce gamey taste?

There are really good questions, and ones that I've wrestled with myself. I've tried that slit the throat and then stab the mouth method but haven't been successful. Even when restrained in a cone it was hard for me to hold the mouth open and still for the stabbing and I almost stabbed myself instead.

My guess is that the most humane method is instant decapitation. I say "guess" because I've yet to do this myself. I use the cone and slit the jugular because I can manage it completely by myself. I'm not convinced I could cut off their head by myself without removing my own hand in the process. Perhaps if I had a chicken guillotine...

Much of my butchering occurs when my husband isn't home, and my son is useless when it comes to killing anything. (He can't even bring himself to flush a sickly goldfish down the toilet if it's still alive.) The problem is, even though they bleed out really well, it can sometimes take a lot longer for them to die than I would like. I've found that the more hyper the bird just prior to putting it in the cone, the faster they die. For that reason, I grab the bird by the legs and allow it to "fight me" by flapping and 'doing crunches'. Then I quickly secure it in the cone and make the cut. The heart is still pumping so fast that the blood pours out quickly and death takes just a few minutes.

I've also put the birds into a tonic before culling my holding them upside down for a while until they grow calm and their eyes are closed. They stay very calm and still through the entire process and some haven't even responded to being cut, but death takes longer. That bothers me. I want it over quickly.

One word of advice...if you choose to cut the jugular and let them hang upside down (cone or rope, etc.), I suggest you walk away once you know you've cut deeply enough. It's just a lot easier to not have to watch them go through the death throws.