breeding Heritage, and rare exotic breeds

[phasian]

One of the great things about poultry raising is that we all have different philosophies and methodologies and still have success. I think line breeding can definitely effect vigour over the long haul. There are countless examples of this with all kinds of breeds of animals. It is not something that happens commonly in nature with vertebrates.

If your focus is birds that look great for exhibition, linebreeding often fits the bill. Though these birds are not always practical in terms of their ability to survive in a farmyard setting which is the typical goal of keeping chickens for the non-exhibitor. As someone who cares about conserving breeds, I think hardiness/disease resistance is a top priority besides the birds conforming to the physical traits of their breed. Keeping birds out of the sun, off pasture, etc. in order to show them is not always a quality life for a chicken. Please know that I am not knocking shows (I am helping to coordinate one for next month), I just think people often lose sight of what is best for these animals or the breed.

Thanks for the update about frizzling on Sumatras. My old APA does not list this. (Getting a new one this year.) Glen at Sandhill definitely states where his quality is at with his programs. The Dorkings I got from them last year were far superior to any I received from other breeders with hatching eggs.

 

[ericsplls]

There are 6,905,371,547 people on earth that started from one man and one woman. There is nothing wrong with line breeding as long as one studies genetics and follows a plan. Just about every established breed
of any kind of animal is a result of line breeding. You can use what you have and try to improve on them but it will take you years and you'll be lucky if you can get them to where good breeders already have them. You could improve hatchery stock by adding good stock to your breeding program but you will also be watering down the good stock. There is nothing wrong with buying chickens from a hatchery. It's hard to beat there lay rate but it's also not a way to get breeding stock. I would also reccomend starting smaller with just a couple breeds. I'm trying to get started on dominiques and spangled oegb. I will keep some other breeds around but those will be my main focus until I feel comfortable starting on another project. I would start with a couple breeds and see how good I could get them. Imagine hatching 50 chicks from each breed or variety. That sounds like alot but it's the low end of what you would hatch to pick your breeders from. Now throw in ten breeds and you are up to 500 chicks and the hundred you have breeding. Then it isn't a hobby anymore it's a job and jobs aren't near the fun hobbys are. Alot of people are going to tell you you don't have to hatch that many and it isn't necessary unless you are really trying to improve your stock. That's true but in that case just buy what you want and forget about breeding and it will save you some money.

 

[Sparklee]

Farmerboy16,

Since you're a farmer this probably won't help, but someone else reading may benefit in some way.

I grew open pollinated corn a couple of summers ago. I got about 2 ears per stalk and not all stalks produced. It was virgin ground. Watering took me forever. Hopefully you will have a good watering system and weeding program. Grow a lot! Mine got some of the smut fungus which can be a pain and is more prevalent in open pollinated. Then you can't grow your corn in the same spot next year. I got all of two gallon jars full of dried corn (shelled) for about a 25' x 30' patch of corn. I was not impressed and will never grow corn for chickens again. We use 10-20 lbs of organic corn just in one batch of 100lbs of feed that we mix up. 2 gallons of corn is nothing. Nothing. Figure out your yield for the land involved. Pumpkins and squash were a better bet for us because we can't afford to buy green feed in winter.

What was nice, though, is that I could feed the corn stalks with few or no ears to the chickens and they would eat all the leaves off the stalk. They really enjoyed that. I didn't feed the smut to the chickens.

I really like it when a breeder that I'm buying hatching eggs from has two unrelated lines. That way, when I buy hatching eggs, I will have unrelated chicks that I can breed together. There's probably something wrong with that way of thinking, but as a non-breeder, it makes me less likely to set some bad traits into my birds here, which I could easily do when I breed brothers and sisters together.

 

[Sumatra55]

Quote:
The comb, wattles , face & ear lobes should be gypsy, not red.

You are correct and I am aware of this, These birds however have no direct sunlight and are in a barn for breeding, as soon as these birds are exposed to direct sunlight their combs will be very dark gypsy to almost black, a very easy/common problem in sumatras.

 

[Farmerboy16]

Quote:
I have been planting the hybrid corn for 3 years, and average 1-2 ears per stalk, but I am going to experiment about 30 pounds of open pollinated corn seed, and see how well they grow. I will be growing about 10 acres of the hybrid corn as a back up in the different field. Thank for sharing!

 

[Farmerboy16]

I am trying to breed for American Standard of Perfection, and very good egg production, and for meat breeds for meat for people. That all I am going for.

 

[punky rooster]

Quote:
There should be no difference.
If you want meat, try a bigger and faster growing breed. Maybe a New Hampshire or Delaware? If you want a lot of eggs, then get leghorns or Dominique's. If you want both good amount of eggs and meat,then go for RIR, wyandottes, orpingtons ect.

NYREDS wrote:

It is certainly preferable to have different bloodlines instead of linebreeding

I'm not sure where you got this notion but it couldn't be more wrong. Talk to anyone who successfully breeds exhibition poultry & you'll find that they line breed. Breeding unrelated bloodlines is an absolute crap shoot. There's no way to predict outcomes. Crossing "new blood" into an established strain is the best possible way to screw up a breeding program.

 

[call ducks]

Quote:
Sorry, i am going to disagree with you on the

Though these birds are not always practical in terms of their ability to survive in a farmyard setting which is the typical goal of keeping chickens for the non-exhibitor. As someone who cares about conserving breeds, I think hardiness/disease resistance is a top priority besides the birds conforming to the physical traits of their breed.

Statement.

Show quality are just as suited to a farm yard then any other bird that was not bred by line breeding. How do you think farmers years ago bred? They were not concerned with the lines they use, they often would line breed... Do you think that breeders that breed towards the SOP is does not care about the preservation of the breed?? My birds (that are line bred) are more resistant then the breeds that are not (i have lost non-line bred chicks in large #'s and i have not lost one line bred chick).

I work with a breed that there may be 100 in North America (all in Canada) the "Canadian" line (as it is called in there home land) was thought to be (one) the last purebred line in the world at one point, eggs were shipped to the home land of this breed. Needless to say they have been using line breeding for the last 30 years and are not having any issues. Also breeds that are in the SOP are how they looked when they were accepted. So if a breed is in the SOP, and was a early entire (you know 1900's) to truly preserve breeds it should look as good as it preforms.

Ok i am done ranting.​

 

[Chris09]

Quote:

Though these birds are not always practical in terms of their ability to survive in a farmyard setting which is the typical goal of keeping chickens for the non-exhibitor.

Could you please enlighten us on why you think this, True breeders are breeding too a SOP and also breed for hardiness, disease resistance and for preserving that breed.
One that only breeds for hardiness and disease resistance and not to a S.O.P. is not preserving that breed they are preserving a hardy disease resistance barn yard chicken.

I think line breeding can definitely effect vigour over the long haul.

If a breeder know what they are doing and breeding correctly line-breeding will not effect vigor.

There are countless examples of this with all kinds of breeds of animals.

Lets not try to compare chickens with other breeds of animals. There not Cattle, Goats, Sheep, Equine, Hogs, etc, They are a chicken (Gallus gallus domesticus) and are quit different than other forms of livestock.

Chris​

 

[Farmerboy16]

Quote:
There should be no difference.
If you want meat, try a bigger and faster growing breed. Maybe a New Hampshire or Delaware? If you want a lot of eggs, then get leghorns or Dominique's. If you want both good amount of eggs and meat,then go for RIR, wyandottes, orpingtons ect.

NYREDS wrote:

It is certainly preferable to have different bloodlines instead of linebreeding

I'm not sure where you got this notion but it couldn't be more wrong. Talk to anyone who successfully breeds exhibition poultry & you'll find that they line breed. Breeding unrelated bloodlines is an absolute crap shoot. There's no way to predict outcomes. Crossing "new blood" into an established strain is the best possible way to screw up a breeding program.

What I meant is I want to breed according to their breed like- egg production breed- leghorn, New Hampshire, etc. Meat production breed- Dark Cornish, Russian Orloff, etc. dual breeds- RIR, Orpingtons, etc​