Buckeye Breed Thread

[Sagibaro]

Marek's is ubiquitous and everybody should assume that their flock is exposed. It is carried by wild birds and it is everywhere, worldwide. Because one bird has the symptoms does not mean that all birds will get it. You may never see it again or you may have a bird here or there or then, a lot of them. There is not treatment. You can vaccinate chicks at one day old or any age but it will not guarantee immunity. Once on a premises, it will always be there. The virus is long lived (decades) and nothing kills the virus (not bleach, not oxine, not soap, etc.)

I would lose an average of one bird a year until year before last year, I had two birds come down with classic Marek's. First, they are unsteady on their feet. This slowly adavnces until they cannot stand at all. They are not in pain but then lose control of both legs completely and then their wings. They will get to where they cannot reach their food or water. When they lose total control of their legs, I usually mercifully end it. Year before last, however, both a pullet and cockerel came down with Marek's. Both reached the point they could not stand up and just when they were on their last day or two (separate times), BOTH stood up and just as gradually as they lost control of their legs, they just as gradually got control of them again. Both lived and thrived. The pullet started laying and the cockerel grew to size. btw, yes, I had the state lab confirm it was Marek's I was experiencing. It is true that a survivor will carry the virus -- but if it is there & everywhere anyway, carried on dust and dander, then what difference does it make? I had no losses to Marek's last year - none. I have been breeding from older birds so they are birds that have been exposed to marek's and it did not effect -- a natural immunity which I prefer. Everyone should assume they have Marek's.

I hope this helps you.

Yes, it does. Thank you!

 

[cgmccary]

To add, Rudy doesn't appear to be suffering. He's got a healthy appetite and has figured out he can stand up if he braces himself in the corner of his box, where he can catch a glimpse of his hens through the sliding glass door. Then he scolds me for not letting him out. If dedicated nursing can get him through this, then he's got it.

There are no gurantees but for me, it was ALWAYS the ONE I had chosen (the best one) -- ALWAYS (and a cockerel except the one time) so I always let them live as long as they could. They are not in pain. They stay alert and otherwise happy. They will just lose all control of their legs and wings. It was so with those two year before last. I set the pullet out on the ground and kept watch over her outside so the geese would not bother her. The other chickens did not bother her. I put food and water right in front of her. I thought it was miraculous when on her last day I was giving her, she stood up on shaky legs. I thought that anything that was trying that hard to make it, I would give a chance. I still have her and she lays great (laying now) and free ranges during the day.

 

[StarrWulf]

The virus is long lived (decades) and nothing kills the virus (not bleach, not oxine, not soap, etc.)

I am just curious if you tried any homeopathic treatments? Then again I do not know if a chicken would even eat it... raw honey and cinnamon kill both bacteria and viruses. If you have it or can make it, ionic silver(??) also would be worth a try. I suppose one could make up a mix and force feed a chicken with it. They say no bacteria or virus known to man can stand up to ionic silver... that is why they use it for burn patients in a cream to protect open flesh.

 

[cgmccary]

A chicken catches the Marek's virus in a small window in their young lives before they develop a natural immunity. Classic Marek's usually shows up at about point of lay for a pullet and about 6-12 months for a cockerel BUT CAN SHOW UP later in life as well. Different Marek's can cause blindness and other forms, sudden death -- no way of knowing unless you have a necropsy -- why I had the state lab confirm what I thought I was seeing with the classic Marek's -- no way to kill the virus & what I meant was, you cannot eradicate from your environment -- either choose to vaccinate chicks or select for natural immunity in your birds. If you choose to vaccinate chicks, then it won't hurt to give the extra vaccine (since it comes in large doses and you have to throw out most of it), to give a booster to adult birds -- recommended . . . because once mixed, the vaccine does not last long.

I have seen flocks take a bad hit then others like, mine, only one each year-- again, last year, I bred from older, surviving birds and did not have one loss. I do not vaccinate as it is too much trouble for the small hatches I do. If I was experiencing heavy losses, then I WOULD vaccinate and do one large hatch each year rather than the several small ones I do.

The several smaller hatches work better for me because I have to work and can only take care of chicks in early morning or at night when i get home & small hatches can be raised by brood hens. Also, for instance, right now, I just showed some cockerels for the first time hatched in June by one of my hens. In November, I showed birds I hatched in March & April by hens, so I have different age sets by having several smaller hatches.

 

[aoccl]

The best way to vaccinate for Marek's is with the liquid nitrogen frozen product. I am still trying to figure out the cost and how to make it work in my case. The lyophilized product is not a great product according to the poultry vets I have talked with.

 

[007medic]

Quote: I thought I'd chime in here. I'm a firm supporter of homeopathic remedies as long as there is reliable science and study behind them. "Ionic Silver" is a non-pharmaceutical commercial name for both colloidal and nano-particle silver. You're right when you say that both bacteria and viruses are no match for silver in a topical or non-systemic applications. In fact, silver impregnated dressings for wound care are part of my daily practice. However, once ingested silver colloids or silver nano-particles travel to and then stay in the liver and brain building up to eventually toxic levels and there is evidence this may also be the case for other vital organs. Please do not use silver preparations in anything other than topical or non-systemic applications.

Honey on the other hand I cannot say enough about. Personal experience, anecdotal evidence, and good hard science all point to honey's ability to lessen the severity of seasonal allergies and to promote a robust and balanced immune system. Honey has been used since the time of Rome to field dress wounds and to treat all kinds of maladies.

The body of research on cinnamon is incomplete but suggests that it can help lower blood pressure, assist in the control of cholesterol and support general vascular health.

Whenever you look to homeopathy for answers, always bear in mind that these therapies almost always are to support and/or enhance a body's natural abilities and defenses. Homeopathy is rarely a cure. Properly used as an adjunct to traditional pharmacy homeopathy can be the edge a body needs to overcome an illness.

 

[jenjscott]

I thought I'd chime in here. I'm a firm supporter of homeopathic remedies as long as there is reliable science and study behind them. . ....
Whenever you look to homeopathy for answers, always bear in mind that these therapies almost always are to support and/or enhance a body's natural abilities and defenses. Homeopathy is rarely a cure. Properly used as an adjunct to traditional pharmacy homeopathy can be the edge a body needs to overcome an illness.

 

[Pathfinders]

Whenever you look to homeopathy for answers, always bear in mind that these therapies almost always are to support and/or enhance a body's natural abilities and defenses. Homeopathy is rarely a cure. Properly used as an adjunct to traditional pharmacy homeopathy can be the edge a body needs to overcome an illness.

Well, as a lay homeopath and amateur herbalist, I will say (and this is at a tangent to a discussion of Marek's, to be sure), that I have seen the homeopathic remedy Oscillococcinum work repeatedly against the flu in humans. It's practically like a miracle, honestly. So I am not as skeptical as you in this regard.

As well, the homeopathic remedy Arnica Montana should be in everyone's first aid kit, both in pill and in gel form. Purely wonderful for trauma of all sorts, and the gel is like magic for reducing bruises. See this blog post of mine for a great story about how I used it when my husband's horse stomped me: http://mizgreenjeans.wordpress.com/2010/02/14/arnica_montana/

There are a number of homeopathic remedies I wouldn't want to be without, but those two are the biggies. I am also a big fan of elderberry to fight off viruses, see this tonic I make to boost the immune system:
http://mizgreenjeans.wordpress.com/2010/02/25/the-anti-viral-wonders-of-elderberry/

I'll stop now, as I run the risk of babbling about this stuff...

 

[larry529]

Interesting... Where would one even buy the pill form of the 1st posted, and where would one buy stuff to make the other, some is easily available but other stuff, I am not so sure.. Interesting reads for sure.

 

[Pathfinders]

Interesting... Where would one even buy the pill form of the 1st posted, and where would one buy stuff to make the other, some is easily available but other stuff, I am not so sure.. Interesting reads for sure.

Homeopathic remedies and herbs are readily available online or at most good health food stores.

Homeopathic remedies can be dissolved in water to dose animals with. Herbs can be made into mashes.

I find it very interesting to note that animals respond to them very well, which takes away the "placebo effect" concept. No animal knows it's being given "medicine" when you give it a tiny sugar pill, and yet when they begin to get better, it's obvious the remedy works.

Here is my recipe for an herbal mash that you can use for chickens who are ill, or as an immune booster in spring or fall: http://www.pathfindersfarm.com/HerbalMash.html