Buckeye Breed Thread

[HallFamilyFarm]

 

[Pathfinders]

Quote:
That would be odd. Jason has done well at many large shows, often winning with his birds. Perhaps you misunderstood?

 

[Chickielady]

Quote:
The RI White rosecomb entered the SOP in 1922. There is no single comb white listed. However, it is a bit confusing as it list both color varieties and then it list SC/RC description.

Yes, you remember the arguements we all had?
We all agreed that it only comes in r/c.
But I am not lying when I said the judge told me, sternly, that they do come in r/c and s/c.
He told me after I said they only come in r/c.
After all the controversy, and heated debates and then this judge, and the horrible mean streak & awful confirmation, (not to mention only 2 laid, 1 never laid & 1 laid soft shells daily, for a year) of the RIWs, I put them in the freezer.
End of the issue.

I think they are tested as we are tested for a driver's license.
They are not asked every question about every bird that there can possibly be.
And if they answer incorrectly on a test, then what happens?
I agree with most here, that the judges will learn when we teach them, in that they must be exposed to the bird more often so they learn.
We had a judge at the Stevenson show who asked that Turkeys be benched....something I had to go home & practice.
Never heard of it before.

 

[punky rooster]

I think this is that same bird taken at the Little Rhody Show. I've found Jason to be a nice guy, also.
Mitch
EDIT: It's a crappy picture. I think this bird likes to pose that way...

 

[Chickielady]

Nice bird!

 

[Jake Levi]

Fwiw, my grandmother had an exceptional flock of RIRs, and taught me much about them, back in the 40s and 50s, one comment she made often was 'if its a RIR it has a RC, if it doesnt it isnt.' The SOP does only have RC in it, but many SCs are shown. People cant read I guess. Judges and breeders.

 

[cgmccary]

bluface3 wrote:
Jason's bird was in good feather condition. The color was very uniform and the bird looked nice. From my brief interactions with him, he is a really nice guy and he was happy to do so well. I think he told me that was his first time doing that well ata large show.

Pathfinders: That would be odd. Jason has done well at many large shows, often winning with his birds. Perhaps you misunderstood?

I am surprised and sorry to hear the judge said what he did to you. You should write a letter to the APA telling them of your experience. Judges are expected to judge to the Standard, regardless of whether they agree with it or not.​

yes, Jason won BB LF Buckeye last year (2010) at Ohio National, correct? & he's won at Boston's show and he won BB Bantam Buckeyes at the Crossroads this year.

Obviously the judge did not follow his "opinion" of the Buckeye in his judging. Jason's pullet looks like a very good specimen of the breed and if the RB was your cockerel, Joe (out of 31 Buckeyes), then the Judge did not allow his final decision to get clouded by his wrong personal interpretation of color. {I think both the BB and RB look great -- at least from the photos I see-- I can see why they were the best two out of 31}.

A protest of a judge is only warranted "in case of Apparent dishonesty on the part of a judge, or apparent carelessness that has resulted in the placing of a disqualified or demonstrable inferior specimen." ARTICLE VII, Section 3, of the APA By-Laws. Here the BB & RB are clearly good specimens of the Buckeye breed so a protest is not warranted. It will do you more harm than good. Most judges do not know the Buckeye like they should. It is up to us (You Joe, me, Laura, Janet, ChickieL, Mitch, Jason, Jennifer, etc) to exhibit correct Buckeyes so the judges get accustomed to seeing them. Also, too many of the judges want to compare or contrast them with RIRs which has plagued the judging of Buckeyes as well as other red breeds for decades. It is also a function & duty of the the breed clubs to educate judges and to insure that whoever judges our meets, knows the breed. We continue taking steps to do this now. There are at least two APA judges who breed Buckeyes and another who keeps some on his yard for someone else. Of course, these three judges may be the most strict of judging the breed since they know them well -- but even they have their little pet peeves about the breed (or quirks).

All this goes back to what I have maintained all along: you as a breeder have a responsibility to breed the Buckeye according to the SOP and NOT simply to win specific shows or to impress a particular judge -- because that judge's interpretation or opinion may be wrong. At this point in time, those of us who have been around the breed several years know it better than a judge who has just seen them in a show here or there, and this is the way it should be -- we SHOULD know the breed better. When I want to know the weak and strong points in my birds I ask other more experienced breeders (& those I know will be honest with me -- i.e. Haggarty, Gilbert, Schrider, D. Urch, John Brown) -- I may or may not agree with everything one or the other says but I respect their opinions. To date, I have never went and asked the judge why he picked my birds, didn't pick them, liked about them or didn't like about them, or this or that. If the Judge was one of those 2-3 who breed & raise Buckeyes, then yes, you betcha, I would talk in earnest to them.

It is worth repeating what Laura said in an earlier post here as well (and I have added my emphasis):

Pathfinders: I think the thing to remember is, there haven't been many Buckeyes at shows until about the past three to five years. There has only been a sanctioned breed club for the past three years, so of course we'll see some variance in the birds. And honestly, I think we always will. One breeder will be working towards his interpretation of the Standard, while another will be working towards his, and they may differ (McCary and Brown, for example.) That's not bad, in my mind, just how it is. You can see this sort of variation in other breeds as well, and I don't think it's something to be worried about.I would never breed towards what a particular judge feels is right, as we know, some judges know the birds quite well, others do not. It's never good to build your breeding pens around what has won at a show (or not, as the case may be.) But to read and read and re-read the Standard, take it out with you to your pens, compare your birds to it, and above all, as Chris and Don suggest, pick those birds up and make sure their structure is sound! You have to get your hands on your birds in order to make good decisions about which to keep and which to sell down the road as layers. I have not shown at all this year, and won't be, due to family stuff. But that makes me no less a dedicated breeder, and I know there are lots of folks out there who don't show who have AWESOME birds. The things showing does do for you is allow you to see the birds others are working with, gives you a chance to talk to other breeders, and to avoid having "barn blindness" about your birds (and get some stock from others who may have perfected a trait you're working on!)

I noticed that the Champion Large Fowl was a Dominique hen so it looks like some of the other judges weren't as disappointed in the American Class as a whole.​

 

[cgmccary]

This male is 5 months old in the picture and one of my favorites coming along. His heart girth is one of the best I have had. For those of you who are sticklers about color, he has no black blotching and no green in his hackles. I have raised him outside free ranging since he was about two weeks old. I am terrified something is going to get him as he sometimes ventures out-of-view of my dog. Here, he is out in the pasture following the cows and donkey.

 

[punky rooster]

Chris, I was talking to Bob Rhodes last night and he said the same thing. When I first heard of the comment, I thought "I wonder how well this guy knows Buckeyes?"

Have a weight on that Buckeye?
Mitch

 

[cgmccary]

Hey Mitch. Gonna weigh him here soon but I'd suspect he is between 7 -8 lbs & I hope to show him.

Interesting you mention Bob Rhodes. Schrider said the Buckeye cockerel I picked up from him at the Crossroads was from a part Rhodes hen -- he called her very typey as Rhodes birds are, he said. This cockerel I got has great type but he won't stand for a picture very well, here he is:

Here's his head: