bucks and rut (sp)

[arabianequine]

I have had my goats since May 1st and have learned tons and been through a lot with them and others that have came and gone for various reasons.

I will have more then one question but to start with....do any of you remember that boer buck I got for free a while back off craigslist? He came here I believe in rut. Well he is gone, he found a new home, he was only here 5 days but during that time my saanen buck below and the boer buck decided to about break my fence down ramming each other from opposite sides. I did move the boer buck back out of reach completely. I had not had my saanen buck while he was in rut since I only had him since May. He did not look this dirty ever since I have had him nor did he stink which that smell is getting less and less now so I think he is out of rut now or going out of rut.

My question is can the boer buck that was in rut make my saanen buck go into rut. The girls were never around them....they were on the other side of the yard and I don't believe the girls are in heat anyways. The boer buck came here in rut. Also do your bucks look or get this dirty when in rut? My saanen has been rubbing his head on the gate which is red cause there is red paint on the back of his head between where his horns would be. I did not notice him peeing or fleming though. Just the boer buck did that but he was experienced. My saanen is still young 1 1/2. I don't think he has bred before.

He also seems skinnier and eats like a horse. I thought for a while he was getting too fat.

This is what he normally looked like till the boer buck came here.

 

[kstaven]

The competition of another buck in rut can cause your buck to respond enkind.

BTW Is their sable appearing in your bucks ancestry?

He looks lean. Has he been wormed recently?

 

[arabianequine]

Quote:
I am not sure what you mean by sable isn't that a color? If so I don't think so.

I think he looks lean too but he did not when last wormed on July 9th.

I will see when I last took pics of him before today's and post one to compare.

 

[arabianequine]

All these pictures are from a month ago 07/28/11. He had some bloat going on here though but still does not look as skinny as he does now. I give him a flake am and pm of the same hay my horse gets. My horse gets 2-3 am and pm though. The stuff on the ground is older all straight grass hay he did not prefer so much, he is eating all what I put out and cries for more in between it is a mix of grass and alfalfa now. He gets no grain.

When I wormed him I used safeguard horse paste, I gave him 450lbs worth on the horse paste tube. I used ivermectin horse paste in May when he came here at double his weight.

 

[kstaven]

Saanens are normally white or cream. But sable genes do exist in the Saanen lineage. Yours seems to have a two toned face which expresses in those lines at times without going to full sable coloration.

Did you worm and them follow it up 8 - 10 days later?

I also wonder if your hay protein levels are low and he is losing condition? Horse hay is cut later than what is used for a dairy animal and thus it has more stalk, less leaf and is not as rich. So he may not be getting what he needs from your hay supply.

 

[kstaven]

BTW: Safeguard is virtually useless in some regions on a number of types of worms. Something you may want to check.

 

[arabianequine]

Quote:
That is all dirt on his face he is pretty white/cream colored normally. No I did not reworm.

I switched from alfalfa to grass and then to 50/50. This is 2nd cutting here that I am feeding.

 

[kstaven]

It may be 50/50 but all hay is not created equal. Dependent on soil conditions protein could be 5% to 16% and you really don't want to get much below 12% if you can avoid it unless you plan on doing a lot of supplementing or continually have goats out of condition. So I would suggest asking your supplier if they test.

Wormers only kill live worms and not eggs. You really want to make it a practice to follow up because you will get the eggs hatching and just give the animal a break for a few days.

 

[arabianequine]

Quote:
Is there another way to have it tested that you know of, if the grower does not test their hay?

I did have a fecal on the does I have and not one egg even in there feces but he is penned separate and I never had his tested. Do you have to worm in ten days after first does with ivemectin pour on and injectable given orally too?

That is what I plan to use next time.

 

[kstaven]

I used to, because the wormers never got them all. I know others who do not and don't think it is necessary. So that is one of those "depends who you talk to" situations.

These days I just use a herbal mix that I add to milking treats on a regular basis. Haven't had worms in three years.

As with most things surrounding animals it is trial and error and region specific. From there it is get 100 different opinions, and in the end find what works for you. We even ran across issues with the herbal route where some mixes that work in other regions are not really that effective here.

Your ag extension office should be able to point you to a local testing facility for your hay. Up here it is a very cheap test. We do full annual soil testing to track how well our soil augmentation is working. Some places charge a fortune while the university lab is very inexpensive. So you may have to shop around.

Pretty sure some of the cattle people on BYH could help point you in the right direction.