Building run, materials question

[maysorum]

Hello All-

First, I wanted to say thank you for all the great information! I've been lurking, reading, and gathering lots o' information on the BYC forum for a while now. Now, I have a few questions of my own. I know some of these topics have been heavily covered, but I wanted to get clarification on a few things.

As soon as the weather improves, I'll start building a 40ft x 40ft chicken run that will house my coop (chickens will sleep in the secured coop at night). So my plan for the run is to use heavy duty deer netting for the main enclosure (sides and top). Then I'll double up with 3 feet of 1/2" hardware cloth along the bottom of the run. Also, I'll use an additional 2 ft of coated hardware cloth below ground and a 2 ft apron on the interior of the run. What do you guys think of this plan? BTW, I snagged my tractor on the the deer netting and it almost stopped the tractor, it is super strong (610 lb breaking point)!

I live in South Central Wisconsin and we have pretty cold winters and hot/humid summers. If my coop has proper ventilation and is draft proof, should I insulate the coop? Does insulation really keep the coop warmer during the winter and cooler during the summer?

Thank you!

 

[Chicken.Lytle]

I have no experience with deer netting, so I will not recommend against it. But I will describe a typical enclosed run for your comparison.

Basics:
4x4 treated posts (verticals)
2x4 treated studs (horizontals)
2x4 welded wire (farm fence) for sides
1/2x1/2 hardware cloth skirt

Optional Improvements:
apron in L shape between fence and ground, partly buried, composed of welded wire or hardware cloth
top cover from sheet metal or welded wire or hardware cloth or bird netting or chicken wire
electric fence

My own arrangement lacks the skirt and uses bird netting for the top cover.

 

[Chicken.Lytle]

Quote:
Chickens are individually insulated . Pay attention to ventilation and keeping them dry.

 

[maysorum]

Thank you Chicken.Lytle.

Anyone else have any thoughts about the wall material? BTW, I am using pressure treated 4x4s set in concrete. I'm also using pressure treated 2x4s to provide structural support for both the sides and top of run.

 

[CopperCT]

First

. I live in Ct and insulated my coop and it does help keep it warmer in winter and cooler in summer according to the thermometer I keep in the coop. I would recommend it. I do not use deer netting for the sides of my run...I use welded wire for the top four feet and hardware wire (1/2 inch) for the bottom two feet so I have no experience with using netting on the sides. I do use deer netting for the top of the run and it works well and is inexpensive. If you get alot of snow or ice it will sag quite a bit in winter with the weight but it seems to return to normal once the melt is on. I use it on top mainly to deter flying predators. Good luck with your build.

 

[maysorum]

Quote:
Thank you! Wow, that's good to hear. Do you know how much cooler or warmer your insulated coop averages?

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
Yeeeeeaaaaahhhhhh <she says skeptically> and what is going to keep daytime predators like DOGS from eating your chickens? Cuz, they will rip your deer netting right apart when they see the KFC-on-the-hoof right on the other side.

I would certainly not do it. You may not THINK there are ever loose dogs around, but, a lot of people are surprised about that, once they have a bunch of feathery takeout meals running around.

If it were me, even in my most blithe and what-me-worry mood I would not even remotely consider using anything less than 4' high 2x4" welded wire fencing, and even with that, I would do a couple of well-tended offset hotwires, or make the fence taller and add a digproof apron. Of course it's a free country but I have a feeling that if you go with deer netting you are likely to be posting one of those 'something ate all my chickens' threads within the next year or two.

I snagged my tractor on the the deer netting and it almost stopped the tractor, it is super strong (610 lb breaking point)!

The thing is, tractors have neither claws nor teeth.

Take a strong serrated knife to it, with some muscle behind it, and see how it behaves then...

(the netting not the tractor, I mean LOL)

Then I'll double up with 3 feet of 1/2" hardware cloth along the bottom of the run.

3' of 1/2" hardwarecloth is not a *bad* idea but I seriously doubt it'd keep dogs out with the rest of the fence being netting. Too short. You could go to 4' hardwarecloth (or 1x1 mesh) but then really why have the deer netting, just make the fence taller with something else, or at least slice the deer netting in half lengthwise so you get more use out of it (deer netting plus hardwarecloth is no better than just hardwarecloth)

Also, I'll use an additional 2 ft of coated hardware cloth below ground and a 2 ft apron on the interior of the run.

Don't do both, they are redundant. EITHER bury the wire (I htink you'd have to be nuts, also own a ditchwitch/trencher, to do that though) OR do an apron; and if you are really hot on the idea of security and don't mind spending extra money, it would nto be a terrible idea to make the apron a bit wider than that. And it doesn't have to be hardwarecloth. 1x1 or 1x2 mesh is just fine, even 2x4 mesh will really keep out almost everything (not rats or weasels or skunks, but it does not sound like they're likely to be a huge problem for you)

Please understand I am not meaning to criticize, just to save you some possibly-unforseen risks AND save you wasting time and money

I live in South Central Wisconsin and we have pretty cold winters and hot/humid summers. If my coop has proper ventilation and is draft proof, should I insulate the coop? Does insulation really keep the coop warmer during the winter and cooler during the summer?

Insulation will not, under the vast majority of circumstances, keep a backyard coop any cooler in summer.

It WILL, under many but not all circumstances, keep a coop warmer in winter. So for most 'typical' coop designs I feel you do get real benefit from insulating in a Wisconsin-esque climate. But, it depends on your coop design which I don't know what it is. And also, with the right breeds and good management you do not necessarily *need* to insulate (not NEED-need, I mean, you know?)

Good luck, have fun,

Pat​

 

[maysorum]

3' of 1/2" hardwarecloth is not a *bad* idea but I seriously doubt it'd keep dogs out with the rest of the fence being netting. Too short. You could go to 4' hardwarecloth (or 1x1 mesh) but then really why have the deer netting, just make the fence taller with something else, or at least slice the deer netting in half lengthwise so you get more use out of it (deer netting plus hardwarecloth is no better than just hardwarecloth)

I'm not worried about dogs unless you mean coyotes, which I have seen a few. I'm most concerned about all of the raccoons wandering about.

You could go to 4' hardwarecloth (or 1x1 mesh) but then really why have the deer netting, just make the fence taller with something else, or at least slice the deer netting in half lengthwise so you get more use out of it (deer netting plus hardwarecloth is no better than just hardwarecloth)

I'm pretty tall for a gal (nearly 6'), so wrapping a 7-8ft tall 40x40 ft run in hardware cloth would be pretty expensive! Thus my plan to use deer netting plus a 3' base of hardware cloth, 2'ft hardware cloth under ground, and an 2' interior apron.​

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
Sorry but I gotta warn you, what you've written there is a RECIPE for losing chickens to dogs.

"Packs of wild dogs" is not a normal way to lose chickens. The neighbor's beagle coming over, however, or a stray mutt wandering through, or the Lab from down the street that got off his leash this morning... those are REALLY COMMON ways to lose chickens.

One tends not to notice them til one has livestock vulnerable to dogs -- partly because it is just not on your 'mental radar' til you have something at risk, and partly because chickens are very definitely an "attractive nuisance" to dogs and will troll 'em in if they're anywhere around.

However, there are tons of raccoons wandering about.

Well, dogs aside, the fence you describe will not slow down (let alone stop) daytime *raccoons* either. (Raccoons are mostly nocturnal but of nighttime predators they are rather more apt than most of the others to sometimes hunt during the day, especially in early summer when they have offspring to feed)

You can make the fence reasonably raccoonproof by adding one or two lines of (correctly installed, well tended, frequently-voltage-checked) hotwire on standoff insulators. Actually in *principle* just one wire at about 6" off the ground will do it, but it'd be safer to run another one higher up. And mind you have to check the fence frequently and keep the weeds down.

I'm pretty tall for a gal (nearly 6'), so wrapping a 7-8ft tall 40x40 ft run in hardware cloth would be pretty expensive! Thus my plan to use deer netting plus a 3' base of hardware cloth, 2'ft hardware cloth under ground, and an 2' interior apron.

My point was that this is overkill.

Even if you want to stick with the basic structure of the fence you describe, you would lose NOTHING by reducing it to: 3' hardwarecloth topped with 3.5' deer netting (that's achieved by splitting the roll in half horizontally) with a 2-3' apron. (The apron has to be EXTERIOR, not on the inside of the run fence where it will do no good).

This saves you half the deer netting, 2' of hardwarecloth, and a whooooooole lotta trenching

And will be JUST as predatorproof as your original version.

Good luck, have fun,

Pat​

 

[maysorum]

"Packs of wild dogs" is not a normal way to lose chickens. The neighbor's beagle coming over, however, or a stray mutt wandering through, or the Lab from down the street that got off his leash this morning... those are REALLY COMMON ways to lose chickens.

I don't live in a neighborhood or close to homes w/ dogs as I live in the country (my street doesn't exist on a GPS map). That said, I want my run and coop to be safe from ALL predators whether they're dogs, coyotes, or raccoons!

Also, why does the apron need to be on the exterior of the run instead of the interior?​