Bullying, Bathing, Runts, and Handling Hens

[chooks4life]

Wow, that was quick with the egg! Congrats! Aren't they awesome? I love the robust health you can see in home laid eggs from healthy chooks. Little nuggets of goodness. Chooks are truly great livestock.

Wonder if there were wind-eggs you missed before that one. It's a big one for a first one. Maybe some wind-eggs got dropped around the yard sneakily; it's not too common for a full size egg to appear for the first lay, at least not with my hens...

But then again yours are hatchery chooks, as far as I know it's normal for them. I read once in a farmer's factory guide that they cull for wind eggs because they want full size eggs from the first day, which leads to some hens dying due to the sudden size demand, but most manage. But I did only find that in one book out of all the ones I've read. Personally I allow wind-egg layers because I think it's a gentler way to introduce their bodies to laying. Kinda like cattle owners picking a smaller breed of bull for a heifer's first calf as a management option, to ensure they get live mother and calf results from the first mating more often than not.

Hope Wilma improves. About Runty, it's likely she stressed her injury a bit with the diaper episode. You never can tell how they're going to take to something. I've had to cull some chooks I could have treated because their reaction to the treatment was so hysterical they doomed the 'fix' to failure and injured themselves more... Sad. They could have done with some legal sedatives.

 

[Farmer Viola]

It was so exciting for me, the whole process! My SO was far less impressed, lol. I have been checking the garden areas that they nest in the past.. 3-4 weeks, because I'm so impatient for laying to start. They have various places they dig holes in the dirt, usually under bushes that are hard for me to see. But I have combed the area, after she laid the egg in fact, to see if I could find any more - I couldn't. Between my putting her in the nest box, she created a little nest out of some hay and cotton stuffing that was on the deck, in between 2 trash cans and the wall. That is when I picked her up and put her in the nest, and she laid. So at the very least, she didn't have a "location" in the bushes she wanted to go lay; she was creating a nest between the trash cans.

Also, I have never, ever seen her exhibit the type of behavior that she did; and after she laid, she no longer was interested in getting in my lap. Today she is coming around a little but not very intensely (yet). Now that she laid, will she still seek my affection beforehand? We'll see. It was around 3pm that she laid yesterday. I hope she does lay again today, I know they can take a while to get started.

I was also impressed with the thickness of the shell. It was much thicker/tougher than the eggs I bought (they are even free range, local, etc). There is a bowl of free-choice oyster shells in their coop that's nearly empty after about a week, so by instinct I think they have been munching on it in preparation. It certainly was an impressive first egg! I also expected a wind egg, or a yolk-less egg for the first eggs, and I suppose that could still happen with the others as they get started. I didn't take a picture of it, but the yolk was a beautiful orange and stood up tall, tasted delicious lol.

I could keep them all inside their coop to force them to lay in there, but then they don't have access to grass or as many insects..



Wilma:
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Cleaned off foot, has a bloodier scab (draining?); reapplied nustock. Face bump is also shrinking, has a bloody scab on it – draining? May not be from her kicking it, as she has been kicking it all along. Her earlobe on the other side is also scabby under the nustock. I noticed that the waddle skin on both sides of her face, leading from the abscess site, is dry and flaking. Nustock was not applied in these areas. Fed Wilma silver/herb/honey/nettle water in the beak. [/FONT]She is weak and sluggish but physical signs improving...
added: [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]earlobe on right side bleeding.. not sure if runty pecked it? I saw Runty peck Wilma on the tip of her beak (the tip is white) but I didnt see her peck her face. Wilma seems very weak, sitting back on her haunches like the worst day she had. Also her head/neck is shaking when she tries to hold it up. Weakness? Neurological?[/FONT] Fed several times. Taken outside for sunshine.



Edit:
I'm looking into local breeders, and I found someone with many of the breeds I'm interested in. She gets her birds from local breeders, never shipped, not vaccinated (unless specifically requested by her customers). She parent birds are alive, happy and healthy. I would be getting 1 day old sexed chicks from her near the end of the year (about a 4hr drive from me), and I would ask for 4 pullets and 1 cockrel of each breed. I would then evaluate all the boys to find my favorite based on personality, actions, traits, etc. The breeds I'm considering are:

• Salmon Faverolles
  I absolutely LOVE this breed. I don't know what it is. I would love to keep the breed alive in a pure bred form, but I also want to breed the traits of this bird (feather feet, beard) into my other breeds. They also have 5 toes, which would be a fun gene to experiment with. Would want to get a good roo of this one for sure.
  
• Blue Laced Wyandotte
  Another big favorite of mine. The markings on these birds is just beautiful. They are said to be a calm breed. Might want a roo of this one. Perhaps if I can't get a speckled sussex.

• Lavender Orpington
  I like Orps because they're big birds, and I think the lavender/gray color is beautiful.

• Speckled Sussex
  Brown/Red with white specks. This was a breed I wanted, but she doesn't have right now. I wanted a Roo of this breed to pass on the speckled gene. She is trying to get it, but if not, the other options might be:

1. Barnevelder
   Black/Brown coloring.
2. Wellsummer
   Lays rich dark-brown eggs -- cheaper than barnevelders.

They are all dual purpose layer/meat birds, laying brown eggs. I would get 5 of each breed, 4 pullets and 1 cockrel. She also has silkies and I really want to get one as a pet. :X That would be 20 total, which I would raise and choose the best/favorites from. Then I would either re-home (sell on craigslist) or cull the ones that didn't make the cut, keeping about 10? I know that a flock of 10 can only support 1 rooster. I'm not sure how to handle that situation. If I wanted to keep 2 roos, I might need to keep all 20 birds.. I'm trying to wrap my head around the breeding and how it works. I want to keep roos so I can distribute their genes. Maybe I pen them in a separate roo-only cage, and do very controlled breeding in a 3rd cage? I don't know.. maybe there is 1 main roo with the flock and 1 pen of extra roos. Is that cruel?

I want to keep the Faverolles genes, and the Sussex genes to distribute to the others. Maybe even the BLW too. Creating crossbreeds is going to be so much fun!!!

With my current flock, I am evaluating them to see who I might breed and right now I only think to keep 3 of them, maybe. Ethel, Frankie/beardface, and possibly one of the barreds (Wilma if she recovers...). I don't think I'll breed any of the RIRs, too spacky, or Cersei, she's not friendly and she has messed up feet, plus I'll gain lavender orps to replace her.

I would probably cull the non-choice black australorp and non-choice barred rock, along with the other non-keepers. OR. I may have the option to put them at a 2nd coop (not yet built) at my parents house in the country. Then, I'd give them the 7 non-keepers and keep my 3, combining them with the new flock.

ideas...

 

[Farmer Viola]

it's 11pm here and I heard violent movement/flapping in the bird box. I opened it to find Wilma on her side with both wings raised up above her - I thought she was dead. I went to pick her up, and she was still alive. I set her upright and left her.. 10 minutes later, heard the same thing, this time she is on her back.

So she is having seizures I believe? Is she dying? Is she suffering? Do I have to cull her?

edit: She just flapped herself right out of my lap onto the ground, landed on her face. I cant say that she was seizing exactly, but I guess that is what a chicken seizure looks like? Mostly flapping wings? I'm reading about chamomile for seizures..

edit2: Well she began seizing back to back, very short breaks in between, we made the decision to cull her. I wrapped her in a towel to control her body since she always landed on her face/back/head. After we set up the necessary supplies, I returned to fetch her, and she was already gone. RIP Wilma!

 

[icbleu]

Poor Wilma!

So sorry to hear she passed. But she was cared for by the best. RIP Wilma!

 

[chooks4life]

Sorry to hear she passed. Was hoping she wouldn't.

Sorry I didn't reply sooner, I was offline until this morning. Not that anything I said would have helped. The struggling as they die happens to some, not all. Not sure why. You did your best, I wish I had a better answer for you, but I don't doubt you'll learn more in future. I hope I do too.

She lasted a fair while. I think some aspects of the treatment were working, now it's just finding the rest of the puzzle... Hopefully before that next crops up again. It's rare, at least.

I wish I could autopsy her, sorry! Man, I'd be thorough... Wish I had been before.

About your post before Wilma passed:

Also, I have never, ever seen her exhibit the type of behavior that she did; and after she laid, she no longer was interested in getting in my lap. Today she is coming around a little but not very intensely (yet). Now that she laid, will she still seek my affection beforehand? We'll see. It was around 3pm that she laid yesterday. I hope she does lay again today, I know they can take a while to get started.

She should retain the friendly attitude but may not feel the need to 'mate' with you again, (lol), since it only takes one proper mating to fertilize a few eggs. Mostly though they mate a lot so expect it again if that's what she thinks you're doing.

I could keep them all inside their coop to force them to lay in there, but then they don't have access to grass or as many insects..

Forgot to say: best to do that during the first lays, I do it sometimes, depending on the amount of instinct they show. If they lay their first few eggs in a cage their instinct usually leads them back there afterwards. For a few days it may be best to lock them up. Once they lay elsewhere they can get pretty ornery about laying in a cage. You'll be feeding predators in a worst case scenario. Also this trait breeds fairly true, a maverick hen's daughters can often be the same.

Salmon Faverolles
I absolutely LOVE this breed. I don't know what it is. I would love to keep the breed alive in a pure bred form, but I also want to breed the traits of this bird (feather feet, beard) into my other breeds. They also have 5 toes, which would be a fun gene to experiment with. Would want to get a good roo of this one for sure.

They're really good, worth getting, same as a few of the other breeds you're keen on. I don't have experience with them all. I hope to get more, but only so I can cross them into my other birds. Sometime in future I think I might also keep purebreds, but I'd use the second class ones in my mixed flock.

The five-toe gene can go all over the place. I ended up with some birds that had four toes with a double sized hind toe that had a double claw joined with an indent down the middle; but many of my other birds showed many variations of toe position etc that I culled for. The most defective leg genetics I've brought in came with my most fertile rooster, whom all the ladies loved, who had five toes, silkie mix genes, and bred many beautiful but frequently faulty offspring. Wish I knew what to look for before I got him, lol...

The breeds you've nominated are all pretty good. Best wishes with that. It's the most recent breeder that guarantees the bird's natures, productivity, etc, not the breed. One person can take a good breed and in few short generations turn it into a waste of time. But it's the strain, not the breed; the breeder of the last five generations on average.

They are all dual purpose layer/meat birds, laying brown eggs. I would get 5 of each breed, 4 pullets and 1 cockrel. She also has silkies and I really want to get one as a pet. :X That would be 20 total, which I would raise and choose the best/favorites from. Then I would either re-home (sell on craigslist) or cull the ones that didn't make the cut, keeping about 10? I know that a flock of 10 can only support 1 rooster. I'm not sure how to handle that situation. If I wanted to keep 2 roos, I might need to keep all 20 birds.. I'm trying to wrap my head around the breeding and how it works. I want to keep roos so I can distribute their genes. Maybe I pen them in a separate roo-only cage, and do very controlled breeding in a 3rd cage? I don't know.. maybe there is 1 main roo with the flock and 1 pen of extra roos. Is that cruel?

Why do you want to keep it down to 10? Is it space related?

If you breed even one hen at a time, you will end up with an average of 10 chooks, who will take 6 months average before you can start eating them or definitively know which to keep, so you're going to have 20 birds minimum anyway.... It could take a long time for each hen to get her turn to breed, and you could lose roosters/hens before you've properly utilized their genes.

With caging to breed temporarily, it's worth doing if you've got decent boys who won't kill the caged rooster once he's released back into common population. Some birds, hens and roosters alike, can take a severe dislike to a bird that vanishes for even a few days then comes back. I treat this attitude with culling if it's bad enough because hens must vanish to brood. Roosters must be respectful enough in their battles to not kill, otherwise they're a waste of effort and resources.

About how many hens it takes to support a rooster, one per rooster is really the minimum, but people tend to keep roosters who don't mind being brutal to hens and violent to other roosters, so they cull other roos and give the remaining one more hens to try to sate their vicious appetites. Despite this, there is almost always one hen in particular who is defeathered by that rooster. It doesn't matter how many hens you give him. Some roosters are the equivalent of misogynists, they attack the hen while mating or are deliberately damaging and abusive, not caring about her protests or pain. This is totally aberrant too; damaging a female is a directly counter-productive trait that lessens the chance of that male obtaining offspring... Unless they're domestic. Then humans enable breeding of a male who should be culled. The male's attitude to females is highly heritable. You'll probably be surprised if you get a good rooster and see how careful he is with hens and chicks.

I only breed roosters who show consideration and respect to the hens, and this allows me to keep a much higher ratio of roosters per hen. (50:50 at times). In the old breed books 5 hens were more likely to be recommended because with 10, the average rooster can't actually fertilize that many eggs reliably. He'll keep mating when he's got nothing though. I suspect sperm motility and morphology is at an all time low for commercial chooks. Some roosters make life miserable for other chooks and humans; they should be culled.

The real answer as to how many roosters you can keep per hen is that it all depends on the roosters.

This means it all depends on the breeder. If you breed antisocial, violent, abusive roosters, you'll be limited.

You can keep a cage of all roosters. You can also keep a flock of 100 hens and one rooster, and there is every chance he will kill any other rooster you try to introduce, because he will have learned intolerance. You can keep one rooster per hen, or one per three hens, or whatever... It depends entirely on the roosters. If you keep one who kills others, then you can't keep more. You will be limited by the nature of the rooster you choose to keep. In my experience I found even the more tolerant boys became less tolerant if the number of roosters dropped too low; for the sake of breeding tolerant and gentle roosters, I have to keep the population pretty high, which works fine for me.

Anyway, best wishes, sorry about Wilma. Hopefully in future we will know what that was.

 

[Farmer Viola]

Poor Wilma!

So sorry to hear she passed. But she was cared for by the best. RIP Wilma!

Aww *hugs* you are too sweet Thank you!



Quote: That's alright, you were so helpful throughout the whole ordeal. <3 I have learned SO much from this experience, and still more yet to learn I'm sure, thank you a million times for all your help. I was in the process of making her a chamomile tea, I also read about valarian root, but the seizing got too bad by then anyway.

She did last quite a while, I question whether I kept her alive too long? But she was showing marked improvement, so I kept at it. All her skin bumps were changing. Her body just couldn't fight it off anymore I guess. Runty is squawking a lot in her box alone now, feels bad man I've been giving her cuddles and keeping her on a towel since she won't be diapered. She's still standing on one leg sometimes.

If I try to take her body to a farm animal veterinarian tomorrow, Monday - 36 hours after death - would that be too long? I wanted to take her in and see if they would tell me cause of death, or how much they'd charge, but they are closed on Sunday.


The first egg was laid 2 days ago late in the day (at 3pm; 7pm is bedtime), she laid no egg the following day, and there was an egg waiting for me bright and early this morning! So she is gearing up to go. It was in the exact same nest as the last time - I think it really was her first egg. I'm suspicious of the other girls though, I'm stalking them through the yard and peeking under bushes into nests - nothing. Today I kept them inside their coop all day - nothing. I observed them for several hours throughout the day as I was doing yard and garden work and no one was exhibiting the "first egg" freakout behavior that I saw before. So more time still for them. At least I know today they all witnessed Ethel laying!


Quote:
I have a huge yard, but the structure to house the chickens is limiting, yes. With all 10 chickens on the roost at night, they just fit - now there will be 9. Once they are full-size, they might even need a second roost to fit their fat butts on there! I think if I have more than 10, I need to build a second hen house and second run, possibly connecting. I can ask my hubs the square footage of our setup and get back to you. Truthfully though, I have no # limit, I want to own ALL the chickens!!

Edit: The hen house is 16 sq feet and the run is 128 sq ft - there's a picture of it earlier in this thread somewhere. Of course, 90% of their day is spent free ranging. When we built it, we were originally getting 6 chickens. Hah!

Quote: for the sake of breeding tolerant and gentle roosters, I have to keep the population pretty high, which works fine for me.

How interesting! That is so good to know. I would of course not be interested in keeping a jerk rooster who was extra aggressive and violent. Perhaps if I lucked out with a couple more docile ones, I could keep multiple! Also, choosing breeds now is setting me up for a long, long while (years?) of hopefully slow breeding, and trying again. My brain explodes trying to fathom the transition from obtaining these purebreeds and mating them into crosses, down into new generations by 6 month periods, growing new boys and girls, and repeating exponentially from there!

How many chooks do you have in total?


edit: (next day/monday)
3rd egg is.. flipping ridiculously huge!! I'm curious to see if another egg shows up today - maybe this one isn't Ethel's? Maybe Cersei is a secret layer?! How could it have gotten so big so fast?!

Left: Store egg. Middle: Today's egg. Right: Yesterday's egg (same size as first egg)
I'm keeping them in their coop today again. Possibly tomorrow too..

 

[chooks4life]

She did last quite a while, I question whether I kept her alive too long? But she was showing marked improvement, so I kept at it. All her skin bumps were changing. Her body just couldn't fight it off anymore I guess.

That's always a hard one, but while they show any improvement, what option is there? The big difference between Wilma and the other chooks I've tried to treat for those symptoms was that she did in fact show some improvement. I would need an autopsy to know where to go next with the treatment, but I believe the silver did help, and maybe some CoQ10 or similar would be helpful in cases like these, because they do indeed show fatigue and that seems to be more often a cause of death than any complete inability to heal.

If I try to take her body to a farm animal veterinarian tomorrow, Monday - 36 hours after death - would that be too long? I wanted to take her in and see if they would tell me cause of death, or how much they'd charge, but they are closed on Sunday.

I don't know if it's too long. Maybe they'd have preferred the body frozen but some types of freezing destroy information. I've not used another person to autopsy but if you can get a qualified pro to do it, all the better. Unless it turns out to be one of those rare but notifiable diseases that will only kill one out of every hundred or so but which still gets your entire flock condemned. :/ And apparently disease inspectors are a massive vector of the worst diseases... I've done autopsies as long as 5 days after death. Some problems will be very obvious for a long time.

I have a huge yard, but the structure to house the chickens is limiting, yes. With all 10 chickens on the roost at night, they just fit - now there will be 9. Once they are full-size, they might even need a second roost to fit their fat butts on there! I think if I have more than 10, I need to build a second hen house and second run, possibly connecting. I can ask my hubs the square footage of our setup and get back to you. Truthfully though, I have no # limit, I want to own ALL the chickens!!

Edit: The hen house is 16 sq feet and the run is 128 sq ft - there's a picture of it earlier in this thread somewhere. Of course, 90% of their day is spent free ranging. When we built it, we were originally getting 6 chickens. Hah!

Yes, it's the infamous chicken math at work again. You can never have as few as you thought would do.

Good time to start making another coop and possibly some light mobile structures that can be shifted from place to place. They're SO handy. I like to wire and mesh and build cages so I built a bunch, especially from old bunk beds, bedframes, trampoline frames, etc, and when I moved house, people came from far and wide and did all sorts of shenanigans and argued over my cages. I should have sold them, lol! They always turn out to be invaluable for temporary cages for new arrivals, convalescence-pens, mum'n'bubs cages, breeding pens, whatever... They also end up serving unexpected purposes like housing other animals. You can never have enough cages.

But two decent sized coops is basically the minimum, you'll need somewhere for the chooks to split off into the flocks they choose to be with.

How many chooks do you have in total?

Because I need an average of a dozen a day to feed my family, I keep an absolute minimum of 20 hens, usually more like 40. This is needed because I don't keep commercial layers, so I need the daughters to start laying when the mums are taking a seasonal or broody break, and when it's time for the daughters to take a break the mums are back at it. This allows them the time they need to recoup so I have hens laying regularly well past the usual age. Since I also breed them to eat, I tend to keep around 50 hens and have a mother doing her mothering at any given time, at least one. I keep a minimum of 10 roosters, since going lower seems to make them less tolerant.

During the continuous spikes of adolescents hitting puberty, I can end up with double the flock size, often more. I try to keep the maximum number only slightly over 100 at any time or it gets a bit overcrowded, though, I couldn't convince them to move away from the house too much. So basically I maintain a flock foundation of mothers and daughters and granddaughters whose overlapping rhythms ensure eggs and chicks all year round, and I keep a male population of differently aged roosters of which some are related. I have at least 20 different hen lines.

Left: Store egg. Middle: Today's egg. Right: Yesterday's egg (same size as first egg)
I'm keeping them in their coop today again. Possibly tomorrow too..

Any hen who has a red comb is likely laying, so be suspicious of those girls. Fake plaster of paris eggs are useful for many things, like dealing with egg eaters (bird and rodent alike), shifting broodies, enticing hens to lay back in the nest... The main criteria for fake eggs with my hens is that they need to be the right weight, or heavier than light (since a light egg is about to explode green or grey evil everywhere, lol) and they need to conduct heat properly, for the same reason as the rotten egg issue. One way you will be able to tell a bad egg in future is by touch, the same way a smart hen can; bad ones don't hold temperature like good ones, and the worse it gets the quicker it cools when not warmed by a hen or your hand. They also resist re-warming once cooled.

About the middle egg, that oval shape, pinkish color with whitish bloom, and size is something I always found my Orpington type hens laid. Egg size/shape/color/etc breeds pretty true. I did have some huge hens who laid tiny banty eggs, and I've had thin bodied hens who laid huge eggs, but I'm working on getting medium sized hens who lay large but not jumbo eggs. This is because jumbo eggs are often just more watery, the yolk is often no bigger than some bantam eggs, and the taste tends to get weaker the bigger the egg gets.

Also big eggs hatch fat babies because of all the egg white they have to absorb, and these fat bubs struggle to keep up with the stronger chicks like bantams, or any chick from an egg that had a good proportion of yolk to white. Chicks from eggs with not much white hatch sharp and eager, whereas chicks from eggs with too much egg white are blobs who often don't stand up until their second day, and have to rest frequently, and sleep a lot.

The first type of chicks will jump on their mum's backs half an hour after hatching; they are alert and fast enough to be very hard for a predator to catch; but the second type of chicks will take a week or more to manage to get up on their mothers, and need TLC from the mother who is being continuously urged by the fitter chicks to hurry up, hurry up! Go, go, go... The fat ones end up trailing behind, crying. Some mothers semi-abandon the slower ones, and who can blame them, a mother bird's got to put most of her energy into protecting the fittest of her clutch, which will always run ahead of her and yell until she catches up. It tears her between the two as she tries to coddle the fatties but eventually she has to choose.

Too much white is like too much sugar, it gives you sluggish babies, which doesn't work well because by the time they lose the disproportionate weight and get up to speed, they're already behind, and it's hard to get a baby back to standard when it's fallen behind. These fat bubs suffer when kept with fitter bubs, because the others start springing all over the place, zooming, flying, and can steal anything from a waddling fat bub without any epic chase; so the fat bubs can't compete and by the time they're fit they're already smaller than the chicks that hatched at half their size.

Best wishes.

 

[Farmer Viola]

Runty still is not fully standing on the right leg. She walks on it sometimes, but she also lifts it up and stands on her left leg sometimes. I feel like she has gotten noisier now that she is alone in her cage, I'm trying to give her attention daily. I'm kind of dreading her re-introduction, she's always been very last in the order and she'll probably have to run the gauntlet again. I think I will put her on the roost at night when I do it. If she starts laying, I think she needs to go back in immediately? To set her nest in the hen house.

Quote:

Well, I saved the body until Monday, and the vet referred me to an avian association whose number has since been changed and doesn't seem to exist.. So we destroyed the body (with fire). I'm skeptical about burying it on my property, because there are predators here who might smell it and dig it up. I'd rather they stay away from my property and not get a taste for chicken. I see a lot of people on BYC burying chickens, but I just don't think it's safe where I live.


Quote:
Oy, yeah, we do need to build a second one.. preferably a much larger house. Shed sized. the good the is, I have a few months still to prepare!

Quote: During the continuous spikes of adolescents hitting puberty, I can end up with double the flock size, often more. I try to keep the maximum number only slightly over 100 at any time or it gets a bit overcrowded, though, I couldn't convince them to move away from the house too much. So basically I maintain a flock foundation of mothers and daughters and granddaughters whose overlapping rhythms ensure eggs and chicks all year round, and I keep a male population of differently aged roosters of which some are related. I have at least 20 different hen lines.

Wow! That's a very impressive flock. I STILL need to see pictures please!

Quote:
Well they stayed locked in again today, and we have another small egg that I'm positive is from Ethel, again. So I believe the giant oblong one was from Cersei (Orpington like you said), not to be crass but I took a look at her bum and it definitely looks large enough to have popped out some big eggs. I STILL have not heard anyone sing the egg song, so idkwtf. If those two are laying every-other day like I think they are, I should get a Cersei monster egg tomorrow.

Pretty much everyone has a red comb and those wattles are getting huge, but they're keeping their butts pinched tight because I haven't seen the first-egg behavior yet. I did place one golfball in two of the four nests, and each egg that has been laid thusfar was in a nest with a golfball. They have probably been in there for 1-2 weeks? I know the feed store sells ceramic eggs, but I thought they seemed overpriced! lol Usually, the eggs are still warm when I gather them. I didn't know bad eggs was a risk, I'll keep a lookout for those symptoms!

Quote: What controls the size of the egg? Just their breed/genetics? The size of the bird? Once they are in full swing, are their eggs always the same size from day-to-day?

 

[Farmer Viola]

Quote: No more monster eggs.. but two more small ones. Maybe I can't tell the chicken by the egg size. That was 3 days in a row though, so either Ethel is laying daily or their eggs are indistinguishable?

They were allowed out for about an hour of free range time yesterday evening. Cersei approached my husband in the middle of the yard and squatted down in front of him, rofl! Maybe she is still gearing up and hasn't started yet? They were kept in until noon today, and I'm letting them free range the rest of the day. They lay in the morning anyhow. I feel a little sorry for them locked up. Tomorrow I'm gone, so they'll be inside all day. Cersei squatted for me today too - then ran away. She hasn't voluntarily jumped in my lap like Ethel did for her first egg


edit-
I've been watching the RIR's leg color slowly change to solid yellow. Lightning is also developing red markings on her toes - I read that a single red stripe is the breed standard, but she has some broken-up "red" (it's brown, truly) on all her toes, not a single line. Penny however, she still has stark white legs - but now she is developing the red/brown striping on her legs. Does it mean anything in particular that her legs have not yellowed? Less mature? More mature? Her comb and wattle are the largest/reddest and I think she is the largest physically. Lightning Runty and Squinter all have yellow legs.

 

[chooks4life]

I'm kind of dreading her re-introduction, she's always been very last in the order and she'll probably have to run the gauntlet again.

Generally being the lowest is kinda more peaceful, since she doesn't have to challenge anyone for her old position, and nobody needs to test her, because she's no threat to their position. Most of the fighting you see is generally an up and comer showing some insolence and being put back in their place, or a chook challenging another for its position. The only time being lowest on the order is a big issue is when all the dominant birds are bullies.

I'm skeptical about burying it on my property, because there are predators here who might smell it and dig it up. I'd rather they stay away from my property and not get a taste for chicken. I see a lot of people on BYC burying chickens, but I just don't think it's safe where I live.

I'm the same mostly but when I lived in one place I'd make the corpses easier for them to access because there were so many predators of so many species there, it was easier. These animals lived within 100 metres of the chooks at all times and the only ones that gave me trouble were pythons. But there were feral pigs, feral dogs, feral cats, goannas, pythons, and birds of prey absolutely swarming in that forest, which edged the back yard.

Wow! That's a very impressive flock. I STILL need to see pictures please!

I've not seen them since they went to the boarder's place, I still pay for feed but transport is a continual issue for me and my family. No sooner do we get a working car than something happens that needs fixing and we're always back at square one there; when we do have a working car we have health issues or everyone with a license has moved elsewhere to work; then there's been constant license or car loss issues --- no, we're not revheads or whatever, it's just been an amazing run of bad luck nonstop. It's always a mess.

I can't wait to get them to another property. It's driving me a bit spare. I hadn't gotten my license myself due to my health issues, but I recently got my L's and got practice on-road and off (lol, dirt road racing) so now I can get my P's anytime I'm ready. We literally can't and don't do 'joy' rides anywhere, it'd have to be an emergency. It's public transport (when we can afford it) all the way at this point. No friends or family live around here, it's a really dead backwater place, full of retirees, the ambulance goes to and from town all day every day. >:[

Oh, funny note, well, kinda... On another thread there's an older lady who's a show breeder and has been snippy at me for daring to disagree with her. (She's an expert, of course). Anyway, she posted a photo of two of her purebreds, from her closed flock, which I'm going to use as a reference for bad genes. :/ Because she has the first good clear image I've found to show you the bad leg scaling. Bizarre.

However, I've always gotten my worst genetic issues in the flock from show breeders and the likes; it's strange because the show standards often preclude such bad genetic issues showing. Also some older folks, a chronic amount that I know of, have often used the line to younger folks 'you've got to believe me/trust me/do what I tell you, because I'm 50, so I know' (or whatever age they use... 50 is the median average after which a person knows everything and must be shown X amount of respect and kowtowing)... But all these folks who think they know it all because they're old tend to be quite ignorant. Just like younger folks who think they know it all, lol! Most poeple who think they're an expert are full of hot air, it seems.

I didn't know bad eggs was a risk, I'll keep a lookout for those symptoms!

Those shouldn't show up until late in a brooding clutch, especially in hot temperatures, but during one winter I had a nasty bacteria transmit from bad eggs to good eggs and it could kill chicks as they hatched, for example if I took a chick pipping the shell from a hen that didn't have that smell coming from any eggs under her, then put it under one that did, it'd never make it out of the shell. So something like toxic shock syndrome. Once a bad egg busts it can infect her feathers, i.e. make them infective to chicks and good eggs, which die quickly. I only had that nasty bacteria once, don't know where it came from or where it went. This wasn't your usual bad egg, but a virulently nasty one with rapid acting bacteria.

About ceramic or plaster of paris eggs as opposed to golf balls, if your hens don't mind golf balls, then all good. Mine knew the difference, so I had to make some good fakies, lol.

What controls the size of the egg? Just their breed/genetics? The size of the bird? Once they are in full swing, are their eggs always the same size from day-to-day?

Genetics by far are the strongest influence there. Egg sizes can vary but generally they do any varying they're going to do at the start or end of a laying season, and maintain size and frequency pretty strongly inbetween. The size of the bird doesn't matter as much as where her system is at hormonally; once she's developed enough and her hormones are in regular enough supply laying commences. Since she's just started laying there's every chance she's making different sized eggs.

Cersei approached my husband in the middle of the yard and squatted down in front of him, rofl! Maybe she is still gearing up and hasn't started yet?

They keep mating throughout their laying season. Often hens will also mate when they're not laying.

Does it mean anything in particular that her legs have not yellowed? Less mature? More mature?

Just genetic I'd guess... But my chooks never changed leg color unless I'd gotten them in from an artificial diet and put them onto the more natural one; then even adults would change leg/eye/feather/beak/egg color. I think if you keep raising them on a more natural diet your future chooks will be hatched with their natural leg colors and all their other colors showing correctly. Kelp does take several generations to show the full benefit since some genes take longer to turn on than others.