Bumblefoot Surgery tomorrow ...

[6chick*start]

Oh lordy HELP!
I just watched a video of what I think I need to do tomorrow when my husband can help ...
Almost lost my lunch. Okay I can do this if I HAVE to.

Out of 23 chickens all 4 of my Polish girls have the black scab in the centers of BOTH feet. All about 1/4" diameter.
They are not swollen nor do they limp at all. So do I even need to do this surgery?

Have soaked all 4 for 15 minutes each in a heavy Epsom salt solution 3 days in a row.
After today's soaking the scabs look to be pretty loose. The video showed cutting much deeper than I thought I would have to go.
When I get the scabs off if no plug/kernel comes with it after massaging, how much deeper will I know to cut? Will there always be a plug/kernel?
When using the Betadine ... full strength or diluted by how much?
I will use Betadine, exacto knife, tweezers if needed, triple ointment w/out pain relief, gauze and vet wrap.
Do not have any antibiotics. Will wait to see how they heal for that. Anything else I need?
They are all otherwise very healthy, laying every day and are about 16 months old.
They get organic ACV in their water every day and they are spoiled rotten.

If I do it I plan to keep all 4 in a playpen by themselves until I'm sure they are healing well.
Don't know how this happened. I keep VERY clean coops and runs and they freerange on nothing but nice green grass.
Their roosts are only 3 ft high with lots and lots of bedding to jump down on.

Oh man I'm scared! Hope I can handle this!

 

[TwoCrows]

LOL...You sound like me when I did this the first time. It IS scary at first.

Yes, you should remove the scabs and do the surgery. Only the tiniest of scabs can you forget about and they usually heal. At least with my girls that has been the norm.

Make sure to sterilize every tool you are going to use. Scapels, exactos, dental picks, tweezers, things of this nature work well. I boil mine in water for 5 mins. Then soak them in alcohol for a few minutes.

Ok...so get your tools all laid out before hand. Get a big towel to wrap the bird in. On the first surgery you can use hydrogen peroxide, or the betadine straight. Even a salt water solution to flush the wound. Have some bandaids and vet wrap ready also. You will want to also have Neosporin, (without the pain killer). Hand wipes are handy for cleaning skin surfaces.

Ready??...LOL Get the offending bird and bring them to the area you are doing the surgery in. Some folks do it at the kitchen sink in case there is a lot of blood and you need running water. But if outside, you can use a table or bench.

Wrap the bird tightly in a towel. (either drape it over them and wrap, or lay the towel out on you and flip bird over on to towel and wrap up. COVER the face).

Wipe the foot area with the hand wipe/sanitizer before cutting. Using the dental pic, remove the scab. There won't be blood at this point. Use the tip of the scalpel or exato to dig around in the hole. You are looking for cheesy, gummy, clumpy pusy like things that need to be removed. Kernels. Now, not all cases are going to have these kernels. Of the two of my girls...one had a couple kernels, the other only had tiny pieces of infected tissue. Dig down as far as you can in the hole removing any tissue that is not healthy looking. If you can locate these kernels, you want to pull them out. They are slimy and don't come out easy. Sometimes stringy. And they may or may not be deep.

Work slowly so you don't get blood too soon. As once it starts bleeding, it is hard to distinguish good from bad tissue. If the bleeding gets really bad, pinch the leg right at the foot joint and hold. There is a large artery in there you can squeeze.

And don't worry, she will not bleed to death. Run the foot under cold water to stop the bleeding. Don't use any corn starch as that stuff in a wound can breed yeast.

Mean while, flush the wound with peroxide, a saline solution or benadine.

This may take an hour or more. But once you have done all you can to the foot and just can't do any more, pack the wound with neosporin. Apply a few bandaids and wrap with vet wrap. Don't wrap too tightly, but tight enough that dirt stays out of the wound. (vet wrap is nice as it is fairly water/poop proof.)

Keep the bird in a clean cage for 2 days. After 2 days, unwrap and have a look see. It the hole looks like it is still inflammed and needs to be drained, you may need to repeat the same process.

Keep the foot bandaged for several weeks or until it heals. Keep tabs on it daily to see what it is doing under the wraps. You will not need antibiotics unless the thing turns into a staph infection. Try to keep the wound clean and always sterilize your equipment.

Oh...and Good Luck!!! You will do fine.

 

[6chick*start]

I think I can I think I can ... after a cocktail and a good smoke ;-) Thank you so much for the detailed reply!
Doubt I will get all 4 done in one day (that would be 8 feet, or 2&3/4 yards, ha! I crack myself up, sorry) but will report back tomorrow evening, possibly with fun pics!

By healthy tissue I guess that would be a pale pink?
From the video and your description it sounds like I really can't dig too far? I will just know, right?
Thanks again!

 

[TwoCrows]

The first time you will be unsure of what you are looking for. But after the third or fourth bird, LOL, you will be an expert at knowing what to look for. Yes, healthy pink skin. It depends on how long they have had it going on and just how bad it is. Some birds may only have a tiny bit near the surface. Others might make you feel like you are digging to China! LOL

But when you go really deep and all you are getting is blood, then you have probably hit the bottom of the infection.

You will figure it out. It is really not all that hard. But the first time is always the best time to get it all out. You don't want to go back in if you can help it. And of course you don't want the infection going in further or into joints.

You will do just fine.

 

[6chick*start]

Phew! 2 feet done, 6 more to go. Daisy was an awesome patient!
I am still confused though on what I am seeing.
The scabs came off quite easily with just a very small bit of stuff attached to underside.
I massaged and squeezed and a sort of round pink bubble of skin? was seen in the middle.
I cut into that a little thinking something would be in it. It just seemed to get redder as we probed and gently squeezed.
Saw nothing yellowish or whitish, just what looked like a bubble of pink protruded, nothing you could probe or pull out, although we did try.

Ointment, guazeed and vet wrapped she is by herself in a quiet space now. Don't think my stomach and nerves can do another chicken today.
Was that it? Or should I have kept digging and probing? Did not really dig very deep, seemed too much blood at that point.

 

[animallover505]

found this online, it may help.

Look away tender victuals! We're going to talk about super-gross things! Your very eyes may melt by just reading whats coming up! Don't read this if you are eating breakfast - especially if its scrambled eggs. No really! I'm even ooked out by this and I likegutting chickens! And most importantly, I am not a vet. I don't play a vet on TV. I never wanted to be a vet. I am not diagnosing your chicken now or ever. If you chicken is sick, call your vet. Got it? OK let's move on.

Anybody still with me?

A week or so ago I noticed one of the unnamed rabble - a nice plump mostly black hen - had a weird bump on her foot. I could even see it without bending down or picking her up. It was a bulge between her toes on the top of her foot. Drat. It looked like she had the bumblefoot on her.

What's bumblefoot - besides being one of the funnest words ever? Its a kind of infection that poultry get in their feet. Usually because they get a little splinter or a thorn or something stuck in their foot, and it festers, and then it gets out of hand. More than likely if your hen has a big black spot on the fleshy part of the bottom of her foot - thats what it is - bumblefoot. There's probably a fancy name for this kind of staph infection but I don't know what is it.

This hen had it on the top of her foot. The only reason I could identify it was because we had another hen a couple years ago with the same problem - but also she had then tell tale black dot on the bottom of her foot. We had to treat both spots - so I knew what this hen had immediately.

What do you do? A couple options:

1. Nothing. Your hen may get over it. But probably not and she'll spread the infection to the others and maybe to you .....and then your hen might get really sick and flop over dead. Not a great choice.

2. Take your chicken to the vet and hand over all your folding money to someone who may or may not just wonder why in the sam hell you wouldn't just send that chicken to the pot. They'll probably charge you about a million dollars and drive off in their new sports car laughing. If that's your choice that's just fine with me. No judgments here. But I knew someone who spent $1200 to get a laying hen a surgery that was basically a hysterectomy. I'm not even lying. You can bet I judged her to be a fool. But everyone is different.

3. Go find yourself a big round pair of you-know-whats and do it yourself.

I have to tell you friends, you know I'm pretty stout. But it takes me about 3 days of beating my chest, dancing around a fire to summon the courage of my ancestors, and repeating to myself "IcandoallthingsthroughChristwhostrengthensme" about a thousand times before I can march out there, scoop up that hen and get down to business.

I don't have pictures of the actual event, mostly because a bunch of shots of me puking probably aren't that helpful, so hands down the best reference I have for treating bumblefoot is right here. Generally I'm not a fan of BYC but there's some good eggs there and this gal is one of them.

​

We set up the bathroom as a surgical center and laid out all of our supplies. Then we marched out there, scooped up the hen, and got down to business. The most important thing you can do is wrap your hen in a towel so her head is covered up. The Big Man held her in his arms with her bad foot sticking out of the towel while I worked on her.

The next most important thing is to wear gloves. For heavens sakes don't take a chance and get the infection yourself. And disinfect everything when you are done - use lots of bleach to really get everything clean. And make sure you have separate medical implements for your vet care. We never know what is going to happen around here so we have a pretty good surgical/first aid kit. We also always have rubbing alcohol, hydrogen peroxide, and tons of and vet wrap and bandages of all kinds. And lots and lots of Neosporin.

​

This is what you're going for - the infected mass that needs to be removed. Gross. The only reason I'm showing this pic is so you know what it looks like. Sometimes you can get the whole thing to come out in one piece but I couldn't this time. See that there is some blood but much less than you'd expect.

When the deed was done and her foot was firmly packed with Neosporin, gauze, and wrapping we took her out of the towel and there she was - none the worse for wear. Did it hurt her? Nope. How do I know? Because she didn't squawk or flap or scream or try to get away. If I did this to you I imagine you'd do all of those things - and take a swing at me. In two days you won't even be able to tell anything happened to that little hen. Until then she is in solitary in a cage and covered to keep her calm. Chickens really are amazing creatures.

Altho gross this is not a cruel procedure and is much better than the alternatives of her dying from the infection or ending up on the block and then in a shallow grave. The hen we fixed up before has lived a good long 3 years (so far) and has never missed a beat. We're sure this plump little black hen will make a full recovery and get back to business soon.

I'm guessing all y'all will be out there looking at your hens feet today, wontcha? Well, what are you waiting for - run right out there and inspect the poulty's feet.

 

[TwoCrows]

 

[animallover505]

I found this online, this is not by me, and I have not done this. This was found online, written by someone other than me!!





Look away tender victuals! We're going to talk about super-gross things! Your very eyes may melt by just reading whats coming up! Don't read this if you are eating breakfast - especially if its scrambled eggs. No really! I'm even ooked out by this and I likegutting chickens! And most importantly, I am not a vet. I don't play a vet on TV. I never wanted to be a vet. I am not diagnosing your chicken now or ever. If you chicken is sick, call your vet. Got it? OK let's move on.

Anybody still with me?

A week or so ago I noticed one of the unnamed rabble - a nice plump mostly black hen - had a weird bump on her foot. I could even see it without bending down or picking her up. It was a bulge between her toes on the top of her foot. Drat. It looked like she had the bumblefoot on her.

What's bumblefoot - besides being one of the funnest words ever? Its a kind of infection that poultry get in their feet. Usually because they get a little splinter or a thorn or something stuck in their foot, and it festers, and then it gets out of hand. More than likely if your hen has a big black spot on the fleshy part of the bottom of her foot - thats what it is - bumblefoot. There's probably a fancy name for this kind of staph infection but I don't know what is it.

This hen had it on the top of her foot. The only reason I could identify it was because we had another hen a couple years ago with the same problem - but also she had then tell tale black dot on the bottom of her foot. We had to treat both spots - so I knew what this hen had immediately.

What do you do? A couple options:

1. Nothing. Your hen may get over it. But probably not and she'll spread the infection to the others and maybe to you .....and then your hen might get really sick and flop over dead. Not a great choice.

2. Take your chicken to the vet and hand over all your folding money to someone who may or may not just wonder why in the sam hell you wouldn't just send that chicken to the pot. They'll probably charge you about a million dollars and drive off in their new sports car laughing. If that's your choice that's just fine with me. No judgments here. But I knew someone who spent $1200 to get a laying hen a surgery that was basically a hysterectomy. I'm not even lying. You can bet I judged her to be a fool. But everyone is different.

3. Go find yourself a big round pair of you-know-whats and do it yourself.

I have to tell you friends, you know I'm pretty stout. But it takes me about 3 days of beating my chest, dancing around a fire to summon the courage of my ancestors, and repeating to myself "IcandoallthingsthroughChristwhostrengthensme" about a thousand times before I can march out there, scoop up that hen and get down to business.

I don't have pictures of the actual event, mostly because a bunch of shots of me puking probably aren't that helpful, so hands down the best reference I have for treating bumblefoot is right here.

​

We set up the bathroom as a surgical center and laid out all of our supplies. Then we marched out there, scooped up the hen, and got down to business. The most important thing you can do is wrap your hen in a towel so her head is covered up. The Big Man held her in his arms with her bad foot sticking out of the towel while I worked on her.

The next most important thing is to wear gloves. For heavens sakes don't take a chance and get the infection yourself. And disinfect everything when you are done - use lots of bleach to really get everything clean. And make sure you have separate medical implements for your vet care. We never know what is going to happen around here so we have a pretty good surgical/first aid kit. We also always have rubbing alcohol, hydrogen peroxide, and tons of and vet wrap and bandages of all kinds. And lots and lots of Neosporin.

​

This is what you're going for - the infected mass that needs to be removed. Gross. The only reason I'm showing this pic is so you know what it looks like. Sometimes you can get the whole thing to come out in one piece but I couldn't this time. See that there is some blood but much less than you'd expect.

When the deed was done and her foot was firmly packed with Neosporin, gauze, and wrapping we took her out of the towel and there she was - none the worse for wear. Did it hurt her? Nope. How do I know? Because she didn't squawk or flap or scream or try to get away. If I did this to you I imagine you'd do all of those things - and take a swing at me. In two days you won't even be able to tell anything happened to that little hen. Until then she is in solitary in a cage and covered to keep her calm. Chickens really are amazing creatures.

Altho gross this is not a cruel procedure and is much better than the alternatives of her dying from the infection or ending up on the block and then in a shallow grave. The hen we fixed up before has lived a good long 3 years (so far) and has never missed a beat. We're sure this plump little black hen will make a full recovery and get back to business soon.

I'm guessing all y'all will be out there looking at your hens feet today, wontcha? Well, what are you waiting for - run right out there and inspect the poulty's feet.

 

[animallover505]

oops, double post!! Sorry!

 

[TwoCrows]

Phew! 2 feet done, 6 more to go. Daisy was an awesome patient!
I am still confused though on what I am seeing.
The scabs came off quite easily with just a very small bit of stuff attached to underside.
I massaged and squeezed and a sort of round pink bubble of skin? was seen in the middle.
I cut into that a little thinking something would be in it. It just seemed to get redder as we probed and gently squeezed.
Saw nothing yellowish or whitish, just what looked like a bubble of pink protruded, nothing you could probe or pull out, although we did try.

Ointment, guazeed and vet wrapped she is by herself in a quiet space now. Don't think my stomach and nerves can do another chicken today.
Was that it? Or should I have kept digging and probing? Did not really dig very deep, seemed too much blood at that point.

I think you did perfect. If you catch them in time, you won't see much. And as I had mentioned before, sometimes there are no kernels to dig out. Sometimes it looks like the pics just posted, or thin strings, sometimes a pus ball and sometimes the classic kernel.

However from your description and you seeing a lot of red looking flesh, that may be it. I suggest you leave the bandage on and don't touch the foot for about 2 days. Then unwrap and have a look see. It will probably still be inflammed, but it shouldn't be any worse than it is now and of course the redness to the rest of the pad should be less. After 2 days, I would soak her foot in epsom salts daily to keep drawing any infection that MIGHT be there toward the scab. Soak daily for a week. You can even soak in the benadine. Keep the foot wrapped for many weeks, until the thing looks healed. Dont' take any chances that crud could get under the scab. I would say after a week, you can probably stop the daily soakings. I would, however, check it ever few days to make sure it is not coming back.

You did good!!