calling any one from missouri

[jthornton]

As long as isn't my zip code

I just take them across the Black river to a more remote place they will be happy to live in cause if it stays here it has to die.

JT

 

[1cock2hens]

https://mdc.mo.gov/wildlife/nuisanc...ce-native-species/wildlife-control-guidelines

"After you trap a damage-causing animal, you must dispose of it properly. Although relocation may seem like a good idea, we do not recommend it. Moving an animal can spread disease. Also, a strange animal coming into an established local population of the same species (a strange, disoriented squirrel coming into an established community of squirrels, for example) can upset the local group’s social order and possibly its health. Further, a relocated animal does not know where to find food or other resources and may likely starve to death. Finally, moving the animal might simply create a problem for someone else at the new location. You should also know that most federal, state, and local agencies prohibit the release of wildlife on lands they own or manage (including Department properties). For these reasons, we recommend killing the animal."

 

[shawluvsbirds]

https://mdc.mo.gov/wildlife/nuisanc...ce-native-species/wildlife-control-guidelines


"After you trap a damage-causing animal, you must dispose of it properly. Although relocation may seem like a good idea, we do not recommend it. Moving an animal can spread disease. Also, a strange animal coming into an established local population of the same species (a strange, disoriented squirrel coming into an established community of squirrels, for example) can upset the local group’s social order and possibly its health. Further, a relocated animal does not know where to find food or other resources and may likely starve to death. Finally, moving the animal might simply create a problem for someone else at the new location. You should also know that most federal, state, and local agencies prohibit the release of wildlife on lands they own or manage (including Department properties). For these reasons, we recommend killing the animal."

Gee. I should show that to our conservation agent who told us we could only shoot at a fox if it was actively attacking our ducks. . but said we could live trap them, give him a call and he would relocate them.

 

[1cock2hens]

wow, you would think he would know better.

 

[OhZark Biddies]

Gee. I should show that to our conservation agent who told us we could only shoot at a fox if it was actively attacking our ducks. . but said we could live trap them, give him a call and he would relocate them.

Which part are you thinking the CO had wrong? the shooting or the relocation?

I think what your CO told you was correct about the shooting, unless you have had previous attacks, maybe?

Keep in mind that many people just use a bit of common sense in these cases and the letter of the law often does not allow for "gray" areas such as common sense, but the spirit of the law is to allow you to protect your ducks, without poaching foxes or otherwise doing damage to the fox population.

As for relocating, I don't think there is anything in the code regulation that addresses this, but as the article that 1cock2hens mentions, there are laws that address this for federal, state, and local property, so you would need to be aware of these if relocating a critter.

My understanding of the Missouri regulation governing nuisance critters is basically this:

• You can not legally shoot the fox out of the fur bearer season, just because it is near your chicken coop, even though common sense tells you it's there for the chickens.
• But if you catch it in the act, you are allowed to shoot it.
• Or if you have had property damage due to that nuisance fox previously, you are allowed to shoot or trap it.
• If you trap it you can relocate to another property, but you need to understand the laws for lands under the management or federal, state, and local agencies before releasing a critter on such a property

Here is my abridged and interpreted version of main part of regulation 3 CSR 10-4.130 Owner May Protect Property; Public Safety:

(1) Subject to federal regulations ... any wildlife (other than the noted exceptions) which beyond reasonable doubt is damaging property (probably means you need to document your dead duck or damaged garden with pictures, etc) may be captured or killed by the owner of the property being damaged, or by his/her representative (Uncle Ephrem can shoot the fox on your property if he's doing so for you), at anytime and without permit, ... this can be done only by shooting or trapping (unless a permit is issued for some other method, such as poison darts or hand grenades) and only on the owner’s property to prevent further damage.

You can find the actual regulation at this link:
https://s1.sos.mo.gov/cmsimages/adrules/csr/current/3csr/3c10-4.pdf

just search that PDF for:
Owner May Protect Property; Public Safety

 

[shawluvsbirds]

Which part are you thinking the CO had wrong? the shooting or the relocation?

I think what your CO told you was correct about the shooting, unless you have had previous attacks, maybe?

Keep in mind that many people just use a bit of common sense in these cases and the letter of the law often does not allow for "gray" areas such as common sense, but the spirit of the law is to allow you to protect your ducks, without poaching foxes or otherwise doing damage to the fox population.

As for relocating, I don't think there is anything in the code regulation that addresses this, but as the article that 1cock2hens mentions, there are laws that address this for federal, state, and local property, so you would need to be aware of these if relocating a critter.

My understanding of the Missouri regulation governing nuisance critters is basically this:

• You can not legally shoot the fox out of the fur bearer season, just because it is near your chicken coop, even though common sense tells you it's there for the chickens.
• But if you catch it in the act, you are allowed to shoot it.
• Or if you have had property damage due to that nuisance fox previously, you are allowed to shoot or trap it.
• If you trap it you can relocate to another property, but you need to understand the laws for lands under the management or federal, state, and local agencies before releasing a critter on such a property

Here is my abridged and interpreted version of main part of regulation 3 CSR 10-4.130 Owner May Protect Property; Public Safety:

(1) Subject to federal regulations ... any wildlife (other than the noted exceptions) which beyond reasonable doubt is damaging property (probably means you need to document your dead duck or damaged garden with pictures, etc) may be captured or killed by the owner of the property being damaged, or by his/her representative (Uncle Ephrem can shoot the fox on your property if he's doing so for you), at anytime and without permit, ... this can be done only by shooting or trapping (unless a permit is issued for some other method, such as poison darts or hand grenades) and only on the owner’s property to prevent further damage.

You can find the actual regulation at this link:
https://s1.sos.mo.gov/cmsimages/adrules/csr/current/3csr/3c10-4.pdf

just search that PDF for:
Owner May Protect Property; Public Safety

I'm not necessarily saying he was wrong. It's just a frustrating thing in my situation. I live in city limits in a rural community where lots of people have chickens horses cattle etc. But we are not supposed to shoot any type of fire arm or pellet rifles technically in city limits.
Where I live we have had an ongoing issue with families foxes living on our property they dig in people's trash and attack small animals because there isn't enough for them to eat naturally here. The conversation with the agent was after they already came into my fenced yard and killed one of my ducks early one morning. Despite his promise to bring in traps to have them removed. . nothing was ever done. We successfully live trapped one on our own and he came and got it for us. But there are more.
It's just frustrating that once it's "actively attacking your livestock" it's too late for your livestock!

I'll have to get on a different device to read the link. Every time I try to pull it up on my phone it won't load.

 

[OhZark Biddies]

I'm not necessarily saying he was wrong. It's just a frustrating thing in my situation...

Ahh, yeah. That's kind of a tough one for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that foxes can be some times be tricky to trap.

I was talking to a crop farmer weeks back who was having significant soy bean damage (estimating something like $80,000 in losses) , he'd talked to the CO and it was sort of the same thing, limited options due the situation and the way the laws read, etc.

Basically the CO could give him a permit to shoot a specified amount of does off the property to offer some damage relief so the crops could get established, but the number that would have to be taken would be high, and each carcass had to be given to someone for meat, it could not be wasted, and none of it could be kept by the farmer himself.

So let's say to ease the pressure on the beans would require 20 deer to be taken. Shooting them would be no problem, but finding anyone to take more than a couple of deer in the middle of summer was likely impossible (food banks need them processed first, and processors don't want to deal with deer in the summer, for a number of reasons that have to do with the USDA regulations that they must follow).

So the logistics of keeping the meat cold, finding someone to process, or take the carcasses, etc. made the proposition next to impossible (at least not without spending a bunch of time and money just to deal with the meat).

The harsh truth for the soy bean farmer, is that to plant that farm, he either has to deal with a high dollar amount of loss, or just not plant that farm.

And unfortunately, that's similar to what your reality is also. You have to deal with losses or just not have ducks there. I feel for you, as neither really seems fair. I guess the other thing to consider is to try and find a good trapper that is willing to set your place heavy in the fall and winter, and remove a significant number of foxes? But even that likely has a lot of challenges in the situation you describe.

 

[shawluvsbirds]

Ahh, yeah. That's kind of a tough one for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that foxes can be some times be tricky to trap.

I was talking to a crop farmer weeks back who was having significant soy bean damage (estimating something like $80,000 in losses) , he'd talked to the CO and it was sort of the same thing, limited options due the situation and the way the laws read, etc.

Basically the CO could give him a permit to shoot a specified amount of does off the property to offer some damage relief so the crops could get established, but the number that would have to be taken would be high, and each carcass had to be given to someone for meat, it could not be wasted, and none of it could be kept by the farmer himself.

So let's say to ease the pressure on the beans would require 20 deer to be taken. Shooting them would be no problem, but finding anyone to take more than a couple of deer in the middle of summer was likely impossible (food banks need them processed first, and processors don't want to deal with deer in the summer, for a number of reasons that have to do with the USDA regulations that they must follow).

So the logistics of keeping the meat cold, finding someone to process, or take the carcasses, etc. made the proposition next to impossible (at least not without spending a bunch of time and money just to deal with the meat).

The harsh truth for the soy bean farmer, is that to plant that farm, he either has to deal with a high dollar amount of loss, or just not plant that farm.

And unfortunately, that's similar to what your reality is also. You have to deal with losses or just not have ducks there. I feel for you, as neither really seems fair. I guess the other thing to consider is to try and find a good trapper that is willing to set your place heavy in the fall and winter, and remove a significant number of foxes? But even that likely has a lot of challenges in the situation you describe.

Yep. There isn't really a perfect solution for my situation. Especially when I have a neighbor who I am pretty sure feeds them In a way that's good for me.. . if they eat over there They might not hunt duck. But it's bad because it makes them unafraid of humans.

 

[SueT]

I have come to the point where I have to admit, I'M TIRED OF SUMMER SQUASH.....

 

[SueT]

Okay, I found the solution to the squash overload.....
SQUASH PICKLES!