Can I use sulfur or diatomaceous earth in chicken coop with Deep litter method?

[kongpound]

Ok. So I think I want to start using the deep litter method, but I have read that you are not supposed to use diatomaceous earth in the coop where you are deep littering as it will kill the good bacteria and bugs that I am trying to cultivate for composting the chicken poop. Is this true? If I am not supposed to put the DE in the pine shavings in the coop then where am I supposed to put it? I don't want the chickens to get mites and stuff. Also if I can't use the DE in the coop bedding then can I use Sulfur? or would it also be bad for the same reason?

 

[chooks4life]

Ok. So I think I want to start using the deep litter method, but I have read that you are not supposed to use diatomaceous earth in the coop where you are deep littering as it will kill the good bacteria and bugs that I am trying to cultivate for composting the chicken poop. Is this true?

I don't know where that bit of info came from... I have heard it before, but I haven't read anywhere that DE kills bacteria, either.

It doesn't make sense given that the pastures grazed by livestock which naturally contain DE, (from which the antiparasitic qualities of DE were first noticed in action) all have healthy soils, which is impossible without healthy bacteria. As far as insects go, worms aren't killed by DE and they're about all the 'bugs' you need for healthy soil, you can even have healthy soil without worms in it.

If I am not supposed to put the DE in the pine shavings in the coop then where am I supposed to put it?

I haven't done the deep litter composting method with pine shavings, only with dirt/hay/forest mulch, and I wouldn't suggest blindly following any method 100%; if it isn't working within a few months then something may need to be adapted to your situation. The DE plans people share, which work for them, usually seem to need tweaking to suit each individual's unique circumstances.

The bacteria native to your area may not be the sort that colonizes pine shavings, as different soils contain some rather location-specialized microorganisms, with certain species being adapted to the volatile oils and resinous plant matter found under pine forests.

I reckon it helps a lot to get a garbage-bagful of composted leaf mulch/dirt from a forest and put that in your coops to help kickstart the natural breakdown process. If your coop has a concrete floor it won't work properly as true drainage is needed for healthy soil/litter.

I also use lime, the same sort you can feed to your chooks/other animals, to help get the litter going in the first place, control odors and pathogens and parasite eggs etc, and once it's established you'll need it less and less often. How much you actually need it depends in large part on what sort of soils you have where you are. The more clay, the more lime, generally, is needed.

I also am not sure of the logic in the statement that coop floors must be 100% dry to be healthy --- chickens are jungle birds, adapted to humid or perpetually moist areas, and totally dessicated soil is rarely actually healthy. My deep litter was dry for the first few inches or so and mildly damp beneath that and didn't stink, and I'd never seen them healthier. Certainly in the start, when I cleaned out the coop regularly as per the average advice, the 'bad' bacteria were predominant and recovered swiftest, as is generally the case.

As for where you put the DE, I originally put it just in the dustbathing 'bowls' they scooped out for themselves.

I don't want the chickens to get mites and stuff. Also if I can't use the DE in the coop bedding then can I use Sulfur? or would it also be bad for the same reason?

I feed raw garlic regularly in the diet to help control both internal and external parasites as it's high in sulfur, it's actually one of the primary reasons artificial sulfur drugs were developed as the same results were obtained using garlic originally which prompted research into sulfur as an antiparasitic etc, but it has many other qualities too like helping speed healing. If it's natural sulfur, that is.

I haven't used sulfur as a stand-alone/isolated product, can't advise you there, sorry. It should work though but you'd need to research it. I also used other plants and parasite controls in the diet, not just garlic, though garlic was always one of the most important things I found I could give them. Never had a case of coccidiosis due to feeding them garlic.

I have a theory I haven't tested yet but intend to ---- chrysanthemum plants growing around the periphery of the coop would possibly control most or even all of your external parasite issues due to the pyrethrin in the blooms. You need the right species there but it's easy enough to get at most landscaping places as it's still in widespread use for nematode control and as an insecticide; it begins working as quickly as within 48 hours from my experience in using it as an insecticide. You can buy pyrethrin too, many people do for lice control etc, but storebought forms sometimes contain other harmful additives and why buy it in isolated or synthetic form if you can get it in a working form that's also natural?

Wikipedia has some decent general info on it and even the right species you need to get for antiparastic effects. Caution should be used however when chickens are permanently caged as they will under such conditions do and eat things they would normally never even look at. If they're free ranged you often don't have to worry about a few of those sorts of 'forced errors' due to boredom, lack of experience, lack of instinct, nutrient deficiency, or whatever.

Quote:

The ideal setup will likely not be 'as described' by anyone but rather something you find through trial and error utilizing different peoples' suggestions and combinations of such info as well as your own experimentation and findings. The ideal setup for any flock is individual, really.

Best wishes.

 

[RJSorensen]

Somewhere on here is a big thread on DLM (Deep Litter Method) which may contain the information you seek. I think the DE would be fine, but do not know of the Sulfur. If Sulfur is used as an antibotic it must suppress something.

Best,

RJ