Can the chick balance its ration?

[saysfaa]

Might available seasonally, but most of the time in that season, be different than available for five minutes every other day?

 

[saysfaa]

the chickens will hull them themselves then

Lol. One way or another.

 

[Perris]

Might available seasonally, but most of the time in that season, be different than available for five minutes every other day?

I can't imagine it would be an issue. For example, I see some of them running hither and yon after insects on and off all day long, every day. I have no idea what proportion any of them actually catch. I think with most foods they're just happy to get what they can when they can, and when they've had enough of that, they stop, as you have already noticed even for meat.

 

[saysfaa]

Maybe so.

Anyway, this would go a long way toward solving the *can't balance the ration because we can't test the ingredients* problem.

It doesn't help much with providing something like selenium that is deficient in the soil of the whole region.

 

[Perris]

Maybe so.

Anyway, this would go a long way toward solving the *can't balance the ration because we can't test the ingredients* problem.

It doesn't help much with providing something like selenium that is deficient in the soil of the whole region.

indeed; we can let instinct be the test.
Selenium availability is very variable, but fortunately is only needed in minute amounts (toxicity of excess is a real danger with supplementation) and animals don't have the same problem accumulating it as do plants, so if you're giving them meat and dairy, there should be no issues. Or do you actually see symptoms of deficiency in your birds?

 

[saysfaa]

indeed; we can let instinct be the test.
Selenium availability is very variable, but fortunately is only needed in minute amounts (toxicity of excess is a real danger with supplementation) and animals don't have the same problem accumulating it as do plants, so if you're giving them meat and dairy, there should be no issues. Or do you actually see symptoms of deficiency in your birds?

They are eating commercial feed that has selenium in it and most of the meat they get is from the grocery store so would certainly be fed with selenium supplemented feed (if from a similar region). So no chance of a current problem.

The goal is figuring out how to raise my own feed. The current plan is to raise the meat needed - so it would also be deficient.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Very interesting.

The more modern studies I've read show very consistently that chickens will balance for calorie intake and calcium need, but I'd not seen such a broad study to suggest they balanced broadly for for protein, fat, and fiber (given options) as effectively as this shows.

That may be an artifact of modern study practice, isolating for a single variable.

Now I'm tempted to go back in and punch the weekly rations recorded into my feed calculator, see how effectively they did with the amino acids w/i the various ingredients, but it is encouraging to those who deliberately choose polycultural methods of supplimentation - though once again we need a meat scrap analog if we want to match these results.

 

[Perris]

They are eating commercial feed that has selenium in it and most of the meat they get is from the grocery store so would certainly be fed with selenium supplemented feed (if from a similar region). So no chance of a current problem.

The goal is figuring out how to raise my own feed. The current plan is to raise the meat needed - so it would also be deficient.

you could supplement the animals' feed, or ferment the chickens' feed.
"Fermented foods contain lactic acid bacteria accumulating significant quantities of selenium, similar to yeast" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6480557/ (section 7 of this rather dense article is about sources of selenium)

 

[saysfaa]

you could supplement the animals' feed, or ferment the chickens' feed.
"Fermented foods contain lactic acid bacteria accumulating significant quantities of selenium, similar to yeast" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6480557/ (section 7 of this rather dense article is about sources of selenium)

Wow, totally awesome article!!!! Thank you

It doesn't solve the problem by itself because the yeast and the fermented foods had selenium added to them. But it may be a key part of the solution. I've been focusing on the plants that concentrate Se. The yeasts and fermentation could work with that maybe.

Edit to add: I especially like this part,

"The bioavailability of selenium is reduced in the presence of heavy metals and sulfur but increases in the presence of vitamins A, C, E, and low-molecular-weight proteins containing methionine."

I can probably do those more easily than increase the amount of Se available and get the same results.

 

[saysfaa]

The other side to the results of the study in the original post, is - if chickens can balance so broadly and effectively, then the ration is balanced pretty good.