That's really interesting about the $8.50 per dozen eggs. Sounds like someone actually calculated the real cost of raising organic eggs on a small scale.
Can you MAKE MONEY with chickens?
- Thread starter blaundee
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I would respectfully disagree... sort of. You're comparing apples and oranges, IMO.
With registered purebred dogs, any breeder worth their salts prices their puppies to include medical expenses for the parents (genetic testing, sonograms, medications, surgeries, etc...) as well as for the entire litter (worming, shots, food, etc...). Plus, there is advertising, show expenses, training, registration/pedigree fees, housing, food, whelping supplies, and a multitude of other things - never mind the time involved during 9 weeks of a grump's pregnancy and 8-10 weeks of weaning puppies. And God help the breeder if something goes wrong during delivery. $2,000 (or more) for a puppy is a drop in the bucket compared to the money that can be spent in PROPERLY preparing for, and raising a single litter of puppies.
Respectable shelters and rescue organizations usually charge a standard adoption fee, which is normally just enough to cover getting a dog's routine shots up-to-date, worming, and low cost spay/neuter. That's if they're lucky. When a particular dog needs additional services to make it adoptable (or is in rescue for an extended period of time), the organization loses a LOT of money. These dogs sometimes are fostered by volunteers in their own homes, and have to go thru extensive rehabilitation, training and have to have major medical/other issues resolved before an adoption fee can even be asked for, never mind before its paid. So, when one goes into a shelter and plops down 50 bucks for a dog that "LOOKS-like-a-purebred-registered-dog-but-isn't", sometimes they get WAY more than they paid for, in terms of loyalty, training, good health, longevity, companion quality, etc... than they would have gotten had they gone to a breeder and paid an arm and a leg for a dog with a registration and a pedigree.
Dogs and poultry are each bred for a variety of reasons. But just because you know where one dog or chicken came from, and you don't know about the other, does that mean that one is worth more? Depends on what your criteria is.
Personally, I feel that pedigrees and registrations on ANY domestic animal aren't worth the paper they're written on. They're ALL companion animals as far as I'm concerned and a piece of paper does NOT enhance their value to me at all. I DO, however, agree that ALL poultry is WAY under priced, regardless what they're bred for or whether they're purebred, pedigreed, registered, rescued or of mixed breeding. Even the average run of the mill mixed breed chicken is worth a LOT when you look at the expenses (housing, feed, equipment, time, etc...) that went into raising it - and depending on the person doing the raising and how elaborate their set up is, that amount can be every bit as much as it is for a purebred bird. Theoretically, if you go by the prices people charge/pay for purebred dogs vs. mixed breed dogs, purebred poultry SHOULD cost more than mixed breed. But I guess we have the hatcheries and factory farms to thank for that - but, people are paying BIG BUCKS for "designer" dogs like your schnoodles, puggles and morkies, etc... from puppy mills these days, so why not for Polkies, ameraubrahmas, and welsummingtons???
My main thing is table eggs from my pastured flock of both mixed breed and purebred LF layers. Some people look at me like I've got a third eye when I tell them they're $4 a dozen tho, which, in spite of the many people that DO see the value in them and DO buy them from me regularly, it doesn't even BEGIN to cover my expenses. So I have to try and offset my costs by selling hatching eggs and a few chicks from my purebred bantams just to pay for feed for everyone. Sure, I get more for bantam hatching eggs and chicks than I get for LF table eggs, but that doesn't mean my bantams are worth any more to me than my LF layers are - the layers are the ones that FEED me and my family. But am I going to go to the trouble and expense to register and microchip either of them? I think not - because I don't raise/sell enough live birds or hatching eggs per year to justify the cost, so I'd have to pass that cost onto my egg customers, who are already paying a premium price for table eggs as it is. If I raised my prices on table eggs, that would just drive everyone back to the grocery stores, and that would support factory farms.
But thats just me - maybe it would benefit others, I don't know. Seems like an awfully expensive proposition, IMO. Sheer numbers alone would make the administrative costs of registering and microchipping birds too high for a lot of folks (think of the breeders that individually raise hundreds and thousands of birds each year) - and with the inbreeding/line breeding practices that many poultry keepers seem to prefer would make tracking pedigrees a nightmare. Not to mention, the life span of poultry is not very long - I mean, I know that some folks have birds that have outlived some dogs, but lets face it, the vast majority don't live to see "old age". A bird can be fine one day and gone the next, either for no apparent reason, to predators, to disease, to accidents, what have you - why would one go to the expense of registering and microchipping a bird today, when it very well *could be* gone tomorrow? And would Joe Small Scale Breeder who lives on a tight budget still be able to show their unregistered birds along side the registered ones of Jane Large Scale Breeder who has really deep pockets? The list goes on and on, and I'm sure there ARE advantages as well, but these are just some points to consider before undertaking such a project.
Just my two cents - off my soapbox now....
I would respectfully disagree... sort of. You're comparing apples and oranges, IMO.
With registered purebred dogs, any breeder worth their salts prices their puppies to include medical expenses for the parents (genetic testing, sonograms, medications, surgeries, etc...) as well as for the entire litter (worming, shots, food, etc...). Plus, there is advertising, show expenses, training, registration/pedigree fees, housing, food, whelping supplies, and a multitude of other things - never mind the time involved during 9 weeks of a grump's pregnancy and 8-10 weeks of weaning puppies. And God help the breeder if something goes wrong during delivery. $2,000 (or more) for a puppy is a drop in the bucket compared to the money that can be spent in PROPERLY preparing for, and raising a single litter of puppies.
Respectable shelters and rescue organizations usually charge a standard adoption fee, which is normally just enough to cover getting a dog's routine shots up-to-date, worming, and low cost spay/neuter. That's if they're lucky. When a particular dog needs additional services to make it adoptable (or is in rescue for an extended period of time), the organization loses a LOT of money. These dogs sometimes are fostered by volunteers in their own homes, and have to go thru extensive rehabilitation, training and have to have major medical/other issues resolved before an adoption fee can even be asked for, never mind before its paid. So, when one goes into a shelter and plops down 50 bucks for a dog that "LOOKS-like-a-purebred-registered-dog-but-isn't", sometimes they get WAY more than they paid for, in terms of loyalty, training, good health, longevity, companion quality, etc... than they would have gotten had they gone to a breeder and paid an arm and a leg for a dog with a registration and a pedigree.
Dogs and poultry are each bred for a variety of reasons. But just because you know where one dog or chicken came from, and you don't know about the other, does that mean that one is worth more? Depends on what your criteria is.
Personally, I feel that pedigrees and registrations on ANY domestic animal aren't worth the paper they're written on. They're ALL companion animals as far as I'm concerned and a piece of paper does NOT enhance their value to me at all. I DO, however, agree that ALL poultry is WAY under priced, regardless what they're bred for or whether they're purebred, pedigreed, registered, rescued or of mixed breeding. Even the average run of the mill mixed breed chicken is worth a LOT when you look at the expenses (housing, feed, equipment, time, etc...) that went into raising it - and depending on the person doing the raising and how elaborate their set up is, that amount can be every bit as much as it is for a purebred bird. Theoretically, if you go by the prices people charge/pay for purebred dogs vs. mixed breed dogs, purebred poultry SHOULD cost more than mixed breed. But I guess we have the hatcheries and factory farms to thank for that - but, people are paying BIG BUCKS for "designer" dogs like your schnoodles, puggles and morkies, etc... from puppy mills these days, so why not for Polkies, ameraubrahmas, and welsummingtons???
My main thing is table eggs from my pastured flock of both mixed breed and purebred LF layers. Some people look at me like I've got a third eye when I tell them they're $4 a dozen tho, which, in spite of the many people that DO see the value in them and DO buy them from me regularly, it doesn't even BEGIN to cover my expenses. So I have to try and offset my costs by selling hatching eggs and a few chicks from my purebred bantams just to pay for feed for everyone. Sure, I get more for bantam hatching eggs and chicks than I get for LF table eggs, but that doesn't mean my bantams are worth any more to me than my LF layers are - the layers are the ones that FEED me and my family. But am I going to go to the trouble and expense to register and microchip either of them? I think not - because I don't raise/sell enough live birds or hatching eggs per year to justify the cost, so I'd have to pass that cost onto my egg customers, who are already paying a premium price for table eggs as it is. If I raised my prices on table eggs, that would just drive everyone back to the grocery stores, and that would support factory farms.
But thats just me - maybe it would benefit others, I don't know. Seems like an awfully expensive proposition, IMO. Sheer numbers alone would make the administrative costs of registering and microchipping birds too high for a lot of folks (think of the breeders that individually raise hundreds and thousands of birds each year) - and with the inbreeding/line breeding practices that many poultry keepers seem to prefer would make tracking pedigrees a nightmare. Not to mention, the life span of poultry is not very long - I mean, I know that some folks have birds that have outlived some dogs, but lets face it, the vast majority don't live to see "old age". A bird can be fine one day and gone the next, either for no apparent reason, to predators, to disease, to accidents, what have you - why would one go to the expense of registering and microchipping a bird today, when it very well *could be* gone tomorrow? And would Joe Small Scale Breeder who lives on a tight budget still be able to show their unregistered birds along side the registered ones of Jane Large Scale Breeder who has really deep pockets? The list goes on and on, and I'm sure there ARE advantages as well, but these are just some points to consider before undertaking such a project.
Just my two cents - off my soapbox now....
Private breeders CAN make a "studbook" of their own, taking pictures, and write up the names and breeders name and color, weight for certain breeds and so forth. Nothing wrong with that. If we saw a beautiful roo at a show, and wanted some of his offspring, I am sure most of them do have names LOL and make some reference who was the offsprings were from.
I do that with my own birds and yes, there are alot of culling and weeding to get the best out of my flock and hope for the best.
So pedigrees are not unusual for some folks. If we had more than one hens for plenty of chicks from that trio or quad, we can just use the sire's name. Unless the mom has a different color.
Microchipping would be expensive and if one wants to butcher it, it would not taste good if it was eaten by you LOL.
Good points and theories going on here!
I do that with my own birds and yes, there are alot of culling and weeding to get the best out of my flock and hope for the best.
So pedigrees are not unusual for some folks. If we had more than one hens for plenty of chicks from that trio or quad, we can just use the sire's name. Unless the mom has a different color.
Microchipping would be expensive and if one wants to butcher it, it would not taste good if it was eaten by you LOL.
Good points and theories going on here!
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The short answer is you can't count your labor as a cost. It is free. That being said if I am paid $10 an hour at my job and I take a day off without pay to work with my chickens I have to include a days pay in my expenses. But if I chose to work with my chickens instead of watch TV on my time off, my labor counts for nothing.
The short answer is you can't count your labor as a cost. It is free. That being said if I am paid $10 an hour at my job and I take a day off without pay to work with my chickens I have to include a days pay in my expenses. But if I chose to work with my chickens instead of watch TV on my time off, my labor counts for nothing.
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Awesome! Wonderfully stated.... Great ideas! It takes a lot of work though, and it depends on the local market. Most folks just want eggs, they are not educated on chicken breeds and what the SOP calls for. Heck, most of the time they don't even know the name of the breed they are interested in (my experience).
Are you from Greenfire Farms?
I have drooled over your website so many times and have actually considered making a purchase, because, thanks to sites like this, I have become educated on the rarity of some species... I can see it now, tough.. If I bought an pair of your Jubilee Orpingtons
, bred them and posted for sale or took to a swap, and priced them at $50 a piece which is an insultingly low price to begin with, most folks would say "$50 for a "special" sussex, that's crazy".
Too bad it has to be that way. Kudos to you - you've put so much effort in your business. Thank you and I hope to one day place an order!!!!
Actually I just got blasted over in the 8 weeks and older section of poultry for trying to sell a wonderful Coronation Sussex at what I consider a very real prices. You are right we must always try to bring near value. I do explain repeatedly our rare breeds - be it the coronation sussex, the lavendar orpingtons, whatever. Many do not want to hear and many will belittle you, but still the more that we all try to get truer to value, the more chicken prices will be true value, at least to some!
Have a blessed day. Interesting topic.
Awesome! Wonderfully stated.... Great ideas! It takes a lot of work though, and it depends on the local market. Most folks just want eggs, they are not educated on chicken breeds and what the SOP calls for. Heck, most of the time they don't even know the name of the breed they are interested in (my experience).
Are you from Greenfire Farms?
Too bad it has to be that way. Kudos to you - you've put so much effort in your business. Thank you and I hope to one day place an order!!!!
Actually I just got blasted over in the 8 weeks and older section of poultry for trying to sell a wonderful Coronation Sussex at what I consider a very real prices. You are right we must always try to bring near value. I do explain repeatedly our rare breeds - be it the coronation sussex, the lavendar orpingtons, whatever. Many do not want to hear and many will belittle you, but still the more that we all try to get truer to value, the more chicken prices will be true value, at least to some!
Have a blessed day. Interesting topic.
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All good points.
A few thoughts:
Dogs are typically more expensive to raise than chickens, but chickens aren't cheap to raise. Many of the expenses you cite for dogs; medical costs, housing, feed, etc. also apply to chickens. Dogs may cost five times as much as a chicken to raise, but purebred dogs sell for fifty times as much as purebred chickens. The sales price differential between purebred dogs and purebred chickens is enormous. Purebred, registered dogs typically run between $1,000-$2,000 each. It's the exceptional chicken that costs more than $20. It's hard to reconcile the disparity.
I'm not a big fan of paperwork, but I think livestock registries improve the breed. My own experience with red wattle hogs is that by building an on-line registry the health of the breed is improved and people's confidence that they are buying a purebred animal boosts the price. The costs of a registry are minimal.
Microchipping is more expensive than banding, but even closed, numbered bands could fulfill the purpose of identifying registered chickens. The cost of a closed band is small. Centralized registries could issue them to breeders for less than $1 each.
All good points.
A few thoughts:
Dogs are typically more expensive to raise than chickens, but chickens aren't cheap to raise. Many of the expenses you cite for dogs; medical costs, housing, feed, etc. also apply to chickens. Dogs may cost five times as much as a chicken to raise, but purebred dogs sell for fifty times as much as purebred chickens. The sales price differential between purebred dogs and purebred chickens is enormous. Purebred, registered dogs typically run between $1,000-$2,000 each. It's the exceptional chicken that costs more than $20. It's hard to reconcile the disparity.
I'm not a big fan of paperwork, but I think livestock registries improve the breed. My own experience with red wattle hogs is that by building an on-line registry the health of the breed is improved and people's confidence that they are buying a purebred animal boosts the price. The costs of a registry are minimal.
Microchipping is more expensive than banding, but even closed, numbered bands could fulfill the purpose of identifying registered chickens. The cost of a closed band is small. Centralized registries could issue them to breeders for less than $1 each.
DNA typing would be necessary to verify the bird is from your stock instead of Sandhill, when it comes to Sussexes. No one wants to be duped paying for a less known line than Greenfire Farms when the said bird was from Greenfire stock.......not sure how it would work. Probably the feather pulling might be able to extract DNA and it would cost more.
That would be the extreme kind of "registration" requirements in animals.
Registration DOES bring the price and value of the birds up higher than the non registered and hatchery bred birds.
That would be the extreme kind of "registration" requirements in animals.
Registration DOES bring the price and value of the birds up higher than the non registered and hatchery bred birds.
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Enjoyable thread... Everyone brings up good points. I agree with stoneunhenged quite a bit. I have plans for making my hobby into a business. There is nothing I would rather do and you should love your work. We do need to stop undervaluing chickens. There is an awareness rising about where our food comes from and people are paying more for healthy alternatives. I think we should sell eating eggs for at least as much as organic eggs from the store. OK not everyone will buy, but some will. Those people tell other people. You need to find a niche market for your eggs. I know I personally would pay at least double for lovely colored eggs even before i had chickens. People just need to be exposed to it. Again not everyone will be interested. I am just getting started and I have a long way to go, but I am confident I am going to have a successful business. As to selling birds of course some people will always buy the cheapest they can get. I believe the urban chicken people will be more interested in lovely birds or novelty eggs. You show someone a hatchery Orpington next to an English Orpington and even if they know nothing about chickens they can see a difference. We have a responsibility to charge accordingly for our chickens. We are doing them a disservice by undercharging. I am interested in everyone's experiences with their chicken business. Prices need to be different buying from a factory farm or from a small farmer who raises their birds in ideal environments. The end product is completely different from either place. You get what you pay for. The biggest power we in America have now is as a consumer. Choose what you spend your money on. Alright that is all I have to say for now.
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