can you train a dog to not hurt your chickens?

[pinusresinosa]

We have 2 dogs in our home. 1 that has been with us for about 7 years, and the other is a newcomer and been around for about a year (both from the Human Society, about 8 and 3 years old respectively.)

I don't know why, but I was pretty confident that there would be no big issues since both of the dogs are part of our family (inside dogs, sleep at the foot of our bed, etc etc).

For one, I was right. It's like he doesn't even see the new chicks in the brooder and around the house. He is the younger of the two.

The other one, the one who has been with us 7 years has proven to be an issue.

He has free access to the garage (where we keep the brooder) and has shown some interest, but never in an aggressive way. Pokes his head over the edge, sniffs a little, watches a little, and then wanders away to find his water dish. Great - I thought!

Then about two weeks ago my daughter had one of the chicks in her hands, standing near the brooder. Dog trots over and snatches the chick out of her hands and flings it.

Dead chick.

For the last 2 weeks, same routine. Sniffs the brooder occasionally, but doesn't show any sign of actually trying to get AT the chicks.

This morning, one of our more fiesty chicks learns how to fly out of the brooder. My wife sees it, but isn't in time. The dog RACES over, grabs the chick, flings it.

Dead chick.

We're all still a little in shock and were hoping that the first time was an isolated incident. Obviously we were being nieve.

Just because we don't know what else to do, our current plan is to sit the dog next to us with the chick in our hands (very well covered) and see if we can introduce them this way, to try and teach him "friend not foe".

But we are very open to and hopeful for suggestions. Chicks are 4-5 weeks old at this point.

Mostly right now we just feel guilty. Adults are supposed to know better than "Oh they'll probably be fine...." when it comes to small animals and dogs. It's traumatizing to see something you've grown attached to get killed in front of you. Doubly so because we have a 6 year old helping us raise them, who of course is affected even more.

Snatching anything out of your child's hands is a big problem. Has this occurred to you as something that your dog shouldn't be doing? This sort of behavior won't be isolated to just chickens or food. Does this dog lay in beds or on couches and not let the kids sit where the dog is? Does the dog charge in front of you or the kids through doors, into rooms, into the car, out of the car, and so on? Does the dog demand anything? This can be vocal demands like huffs, frustrated whines in a yawning movement, or forcing your hand off of your body to pet them with it's nose? These behaviors don't bother a lot of people and they may be subtle, but this is exactly what I talk about when I mention a foundation of respect- if a dog is doing this (and these aren't the only behaviors), you have to work on that foundation first before you'll be able to successfully teach your dog that it can not kill your chickens.

 

[ShockValue]

I won't pretend he's a model of obedience.. However no, he does not snatch things out of our hands and is not territorial about kids invading where he's sleeping.

On the plus side, me, the cat, and my wynadotte chick all took a nap together on the couch last night. Which kinda surprised the hell out of me, as she does hunt from time to time.

 

[pinusresinosa]

I won't pretend he's a model of obedience.. However no, he does not snatch things out of our hands and is not territorial about kids invading where he's sleeping.

On the plus side, me, the cat, and my wynadotte chick all took a nap together on the couch last night. Which kinda surprised the hell out of me, as she does hunt from time to time.

"Then about two weeks ago my daughter had one of the chicks in her hands, standing near the brooder. Dog trots over and snatches the chick out of her hands and flings it." ---He snatches chicks from hands. Your dog snatches things out of the hands of people, here in this instance your kid.

I'm not sure you're understanding what I'm getting at. It's not the kids invading your dog's space. It's the dog not giving up prime sitting and sleeping areas for others when it's asked to move, or even worse, people find other spots to sit and sleep in on the human furniture because they don't want to disturb the dog. But since we're on two totally different pages here, I doubt you've ever noticed this behavior. As I say, people are fine with dogs acting like this, and there's nothing wrong with that. I'm just trying to tell you that if you want to be able to train your dog to not kill your chickens, this sort of stuff can't happen first.

Not trying to be a jerk here, just speaking from a lot of experience and being frank about this.

Cats are different things all together.

 

[centrarchid]

"Then about two weeks ago my daughter had one of the chicks in her hands, standing near the brooder.  Dog trots over and snatches the chick out of her hands and flings it." ---He snatches chicks from hands. Your dog snatches things out of the hands of people, here in this instance your kid.

I'm not sure you're understanding what I'm getting at. It's not the kids invading your dog's space. It's the dog not giving up prime sitting and sleeping areas for others when it's asked to move, or even worse, people find other spots to sit and sleep in on the human furniture because they don't want to disturb the dog. But since we're on two totally different pages here, I doubt you've ever noticed this behavior. As I say, people are fine with dogs acting like this, and there's nothing wrong with that. I'm just trying to tell you that if you want to be able to train your dog to not kill your chickens, this sort of stuff can't happen first.

Not trying to be a jerk here, just speaking from a lot of experience and being frank about this.

Cats are different things all together.

A lot of what you say here is not hard and true with respect to dogs.

 

[chickengeorgeto]

Heck, my Sheba Inu is territorial as well as jealous about his food bowl, his water bowl, and his toys. When he sees me get the vacuum out Dog will move his toys from the living room to the hall, to the bedroom, to the dining room and back again to the living room. It is quite humorous to watch him herd his possessions, I am talking like about 10 or 12 stuffed toy animals, rubber balls, and raw hide chew bones.

Sheba Inus are wonderful vermin dogs but I don't trust one around chickens any further than I can sling him. I use to think that I could break any dog from killing poultry, but a pair of Feists cured me of that delusion. Any correction I tried they took as an indication that they weren't killing chickens fast enough to suit me, so the dogs just doubled their chicken killing efforts in an attempt to please. Believe me, Sheba Inus have an even harder head than a Feist.

 

[Gingersnap722]

I believe what Pinus is talking about is the dog trying to be dominant over the people in the home. There's always an alpha in the dog world and people have to be sure they're the alpha and not the dog. One of our shepherds wanted to stand over our grandson. Cute, but she was trying to let him know she was dominant over him. That was corrected very quickly. Anyway, I believe that's what she's trying to get across. You have to be sure you're the first one out the door and the dog goes out only when you say, the dog eats when you say it's ok and doesn't snatch things out of peoples hands etc.

 

[pinusresinosa]

I see this with folks a lot, and like I said if that's how you run your own home that's up to you, doesn't make you irresponsible or a bad pet owner or anything and it doesn't mean you have a bad dog. Often times, dogs that live in families like this never bite anyone and people enjoy having a dog around the house that thinks it's the bee's knees. Just know that it's not really going to be possible to train this sort of dog with this sort of thinking to not eat or kill or chase your birds. Once your dog accepts that it doesn't have run of the house or that it can't control what others do in the home, it'll be very easy to teach the dog that the family birds are off limits and have a place in its life despite it's instincts.

Shiba Inu's are wickedly smart dogs!

 

[nzpouter]

Then about two weeks ago my daughter had one of the chicks in her hands, standing near the brooder.  Dog trots over and snatches the chick out of her hands and flings it.

Dead chick.



This morning, one of our more fiesty chicks learns how to fly out of the brooder.   My wife sees it, but isn't in time.   The dog RACES over, grabs the chick, flings it.

Dead chick.

was the chick chirping while your daughter held it? as for the second chick, the wing flap will be my bet for the dog's trigger.

 

[pnutj58]

I think a couple of people have touched on something here that is something I'd consider first. If a child plays with a dog with a squeaky toy, it is very possible that the chick, especially if it was cheeping, was perceived as a squeaky toy and the dog wasn't actually out to kill the chick. Once it had the fuzziness or feathers of the chick in its mouth, it may have wondered "what the heck?" and shaken its head, thus flinging the chick. Or not. I wasn't there and didn't see. But, you cannot correct a dog for something it doesn't know it did. It has to understand first. It has to be taught that the chick is a living thing and not a toy -- IF the toy idea is what the problem is. When my kids were toddlers, they'd have their toys all over the living room. Toddler toys and dog toys are sometimes very similar. At the same time, the dogs would have their toys all over the floor, too. I successfully taught (within just a day or so) the dogs that the kids' toys were off limits.

My point is that, if the dog thought the chick was a toy, and if the dog usually plays with squeaky toys (or any toy) with a child, it hasn't done anything wrong. It has to be taught the difference. If it still grabs a chick and flings it after it has been given ample time, exposure and teaching, THEN it needs to be corrected.

Another thought that came to mind almost immediately is that dogs that are bred to hunt have a very high drive to do just that and even to kill. A cheeping chick is very likely to incite a dog that is meant to hunt, to follow its instinct and drive. It can be trained not to follow the instinct and drive, fortunately. It is no coincidence that squealing, running kids are often chased and even bitten by dogs. That behavior is often perceived as distressed prey by a dog. So, too, a cheeping chick or one that it flapping its wing(s).

There are a lot of good answers and ideas in this discussion. To me, it doesn't sound like dog was trying to be dominant.

It has occurred to me that by the time this thread settles down, the chicks won't be chicks anymore.

 

[centrarchid]

I think a couple of people have touched on something here that is something I'd consider first.  If a child plays with a dog with a squeaky toy, it is very possible that the chick, especially if it was cheeping, was perceived as a squeaky toy and the dog wasn't actually out to kill the chick.  Once it had the fuzziness or feathers of the chick in its mouth, it may have wondered "what the heck?" and shaken its head, thus flinging the chick.  Or not.  I wasn't there and didn't see.  But, you cannot correct a dog for something it doesn't know it did.  It has to understand first.  It has to be taught that the chick is a living thing and not a toy -- IF the toy idea is what the problem is.   When my kids were toddlers, they'd have their toys all over the living room.  Toddler toys and dog toys are sometimes very similar.  At the same time, the dogs would have their toys all over the floor, too.  I successfully taught (within just a day or so) the dogs that the kids' toys were off limits. 

My point is that, if the dog thought the chick was a toy, and if the dog usually plays with squeaky toys (or any toy) with a child, it hasn't done anything wrong.  It has to be taught the difference.  If it still grabs a chick and flings it after it has been given ample time, exposure and teaching, THEN it needs to be corrected. 

Another thought that came to mind almost immediately is that dogs that are bred to hunt have a very high drive to do just that and even to kill.  A cheeping chick is very likely to incite a dog that is meant to hunt, to follow its instinct and drive.  It can be trained not to follow the instinct and drive, fortunately.   It is no coincidence that squealing, running kids are often chased and even bitten by dogs.  That behavior is often perceived as distressed prey by a dog.  So, too, a cheeping chick or one that it flapping its wing(s).

There are a lot of good answers and ideas in this discussion.  To me, it doesn't sound like dog was trying to be dominant. 

It has occurred to me that by the time this thread settles down, the chicks won't be chicks anymore. 

You are grossly under estimating just about any dogs ability to distinguish stimuli. Sounds, smells and sights are processed very well enabling them to distinguish things, especially with compared to us in terms of speed. Their limitations will come from a lack of experience you provide / enable.