Cedar Shavings?

[spindlebox]

So I am getting lots of conflicting information about cedar shavings. Apparently, Cedar shavings are toxic to baby chicks? Why are pine shavings better?

Thank you in advance.

 

[Birdsonghill]

Cedar shavings will poison or cause irritation to some animals due to the resins in them. pine shavings do not have the same resins and are generally safer for bedding use. The resins in cedar make them more rot resistant and tend to repel insects. Dogs (their skin) apparently are more resistant to the cedar and less likely to eat any. Chickens are not dogs! Chickens tend to peck and eat smaller bits of shavings and that is their undoing. I have always been told this since the 1950's and accept it as fact , myself.

 

[50-45-1]

I've brooded chicks on both before I new any difference. Luckily I did not loose any.
I think the key in my case is ventilation.
I usually brood on a cardboard box with a lamp. I also have lots of ventilation holes in the box or completely open top.
I think the problem can arise with cedar as it is very aromatic, say if you put chicks in a small tote with maybe little or small ventilation holes to retain heet. The warmth activates the strong aroma of cedar, and if chicks cant get fresh air apparently they die.
Think about a brooder plate, where chicks are in a very small space and the heat source is very close to the chips.
It's not worth messing with it.
Pine is less aromatic. But if it smells fresh when you open the bag I've heard you should spread it out on a tarp or something for a day or 2 so it can dry out.

 

[spindlebox]

Yes Free Ranging, that is what I read as well. I guess it just makes sense to err on the side of caution. I think I can use the Cedar shavings after they get older for maybe their nesting boxes or in the coop, mixed with sand, etc. It won't go to waste!!

But yeah, I think sometimes dumb luck is a thing.

 

[Birdsonghill]

I would say do both always, have plenty of ventilation at the top of your brooder and never use chicken toxic cedar chips. I have lost a couple birds over the decades from eating old pine shavings because those silly chicks did it in excess. The old shavings tend to make more fines and some chicks will gorge on it instead of food. All in all , fresh pine shavings have performed the best for me. The same resins that are rot and insect resistant in cedar are known irritants and strongly aromatic as well . I am referring to eastern red cedar. I would use paper bedding or straw before red cedar shavings. I would not press my luck with cedar. Best wishes for your success whatever you use for bedding! I strive to reduce stress, dangers and waste in my flocks and look for every advantage I can afford in getting them off to a strong start and a long productive life. I may be OCD and at other times a bit too experimental myself and can not argue with success anyone has to the contrary of my observations.

 

[50-45-1]

In addition I will say, my new born chicks are on paper towel for the first 3 days. That way they get accustomed to there starter crumble and the 4th day chips are added.
By this time they recognize what food is and even though they may experiment at first by tasting a small portion of chips,they are well established and quickly find out it's not food.

 

[rosemarythyme]

As others have noted the highly aromatic qualities of cedar are what makes it a respiratory irritant for birds and small mammals. That said, I have cedar chips in my chip mix (it would be literally impossible to get wood chips around here without cedar mixed in, as it's simply part of the environment) and I use aged chips in both coop and run. Little to no cedar aroma at all. I feel very comfortable about using it in my set up. We have Western cedar which is lower aroma than Eastern red cedar (which is more aromatic and the type of cedar associated with hope chests and insect repellents).

I would probably avoid using cedar shavings (the increased surface area allows for more offgassing), or fresh cedar (well, fresh anything really... pine sap is awful!), or cedar in closed-in environments (i.e. indoor brooder, coop lacking in ventilation), especially if it's an aromatic variety of cedar. My coop is well over recommended ventilation plus has a high ceiling for added air volume.

Many coop builds have cedar and I don't think people ever consider that. My current coop has cedar trim, my old one (which is now a chick brooder) is 100% cedar.

Obviously if you're not comfortable with it, don't use it, but I've been mixing in cedar for the last few years and there's been no sign of respiratory issues in my flock.