Challenges of living in the woods with chickens

[Appalachickens]

It's been a British military base for hundreds of years now with a regular scientific presence on the island. There are no humans indigenous to the island, and looking it up now only a few species of fern are the indigenous vegetation

Humanity has been a devastating cancer upon the earth so far. North America had 97% of old growth forest chopped down before 1900
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There used to be 70 million buffalo on this continent too, ranging across the infinite prairie. Now only a few thousand remain in small fenced in preserves. The amount of damage is mind-boggling and this is nowhere even near the tip of the iceberg

In regards to the invasive discussion, a lot of plants are classified as invasive not for ecological reasons but for economic ones. Because they interfere with the human industry of destroying the biosphere

A lot of plants are classified as invasive because they are not natives and displace the native plants that are required by native pollinators to survive. Where a mimosa is growing, for instance, a keystone species like oak isn’t. Or nonnative invasives like black medic or Japanese honeysuckle will choke out native pollinator-friendly plants. So it’s planting a butterfly bush instead of butterfly weed or milkweed or Joe Pye weed, or planting a Bradford pear instead of a native plum or a maple that is destroying the biosphere.

 

[No Coop No Problem]

A lot of plants are classified as invasive because they are not natives and displace the native plants that are required by native pollinators to survive. Where a mimosa is growing, for instance, a keystone species like oak isn’t. Or nonnative invasives like black medic or Japanese honeysuckle will choke out native pollinator-friendly plants. So it’s planting a butterfly bush instead of butterfly weed or milkweed or Joe Pye weed, or planting a Bradford pear instead of a native plum or a maple that is destroying the biosphere.

In my opinion mimosa are a prominent example in my area of a beneficial plant that humans dislike for some reason. They're beautiful, they only grow on the edge of forests in human damaged areas (ie the side of roads) and they grow in small numbers with small lifespans. So they don't displace anything, but merely add more to biodiversity. In addition pollinators love the flowers and unlike all native trees mimosa have the wonderful ability of nitrogen fixation, meaning they improve soil quality wherever they grow. Their nitrogen fixation ability far exceeds that of traditional fixers like clover

 

[Appalachickens]

In my opinion mimosa are a prominent example in my area of a beneficial plant that humans dislike for some reason. They're beautiful, they only grow on the edge of forests in human damaged areas (ie the side of roads) and they grow in small numbers with small lifespans. So they don't displace anything, but merely add more to biodiversity. In addition pollinators love the flowers and unlike all native trees mimosa have the wonderful ability of nitrogen fixation, meaning they improve soil quality wherever they grow. Their nitrogen fixation ability far exceeds that of traditional fixers like clover

I disagree. Mimosas are aggressively invasive and can readily out-compete native plants. My own woods have them in parts which are not disturbed areas because they spread. And some generalist pollinators can use them but many of our native pollinators needs specific native plants to survive. As for nitrogen fixing, there are plenty of native plants that can do that - like hogweed or partridge pea. The damage plants like mimosas do outweighs their ability to fix nitrogen in the soil. We don't need indiscriminate biodiversity, we need native biodiversity.

 

[Mother of Chaos]

A lot of plants are classified as invasive because they are not natives and displace the native plants that are required by native pollinators to survive. Where a mimosa is growing, for instance, a keystone species like oak isn’t. Or nonnative invasives like black medic or Japanese honeysuckle will choke out native pollinator-friendly plants. So it’s planting a butterfly bush instead of butterfly weed or milkweed or Joe Pye weed, or planting a Bradford pear instead of a native plum or a maple that is destroying the biosphere.

Right. In the quite rare instances like Ascension Island, or where a past lava flow is beginning to develop soil, new plants aren’t invasive - they’re colonizers.

Invasives are non-native AND they displace natives in some way: they get more sun (shade out natives), more water or nutrients (aggressive rooting), more protection from prey (toxic fruit, bark), and so forth. Essentially, they out-compete natives for survival but don’t offer as much to other native plants and animals in terms of food and so forth.

 

[No Coop No Problem]

As for nitrogen fixing, there are plenty of native plants that can do that - like hogweed or partridge pea. The damage plants like mimosas do outweighs their ability to fix nitrogen in the soil.

I don't see any nitrogen fixers in my area at all other than clover (invasive) in lawns (also invasive) occasionally. Mimosa is the only nitrogen fixer here that exists in places other than invasive grass lawns and again, pollinators use it and its nitrogen fixation ability is far superior to clover

Clover only puts nitrogen into the soil when it dies annually. Mimosa uses its roots to regularly deposit nitrogen into the surrounding soil throughout its entire lifespan

I believe that the two of us are in very different regions. In my area the soil is almost entirely low quality sand, so I look positively upon any nitrogen fixer because we overwhelming lack them

We don't need indiscriminate biodiversity, we need native biodiversity.

Wheat is from the Middle East. Potatoes are from South America. Corn is from Mexico. Cows are from Europe. Chickens are from Asia. Sheep are from Europe. Most humans on this continent are from Europe and most of them grow European grasses around their homes intentionally displacing the native flora

It strikes me as illogical to be concerned about the origin of pretty pink trees that grow occasionally on the side of the road when 99% of the species humans interact with in America are from foreign lands

Personally I don't care about the geographic origin of things. I have ancestors from multiple continents that have moved many thousands of miles around the world. Species move around, always have and always will. There are far better ways to focus on ecological improvement than foreign versus native

 

[BlindLemonChicken]

Bamboo in my climate is impossible to move through for a human being so I wouldn’t plant it except as a wall and even then because of the way it grows it would end up being a much wider wall than I intended and from what I’ve gathered from locals it’s not a thing that can be controlled. A bit of a Pandora’s box.

 

[WildNectarine]

I don't see any nitrogen fixers in my area at all other than clover (invasive) in lawns (also invasive) occasionally. Mimosa is the only nitrogen fixer here that exists in places other than invasive grass lawns and again, pollinators use it and its nitrogen fixation ability is far superior to clover

Clover only puts nitrogen into the soil when it dies annually. Mimosa uses its roots to regularly deposit nitrogen into the surrounding soil throughout its entire lifespan

I believe that the two of us are in very different regions. In my area the soil is almost entirely low quality sand, so I look positively upon any nitrogen fixer because we overwhelming lack them

Wheat is from the Middle East. Potatoes are from South America. Corn is from Mexico. Cows are from Europe. Chickens are from Asia. Sheep are from Europe. Most humans on this continent are from Europe and most of them grow European grasses around their homes intentionally displacing the native flora

It strikes me as illogical to be concerned about the origin of pretty pink trees that grow occasionally on the side of the road when 99% of the species humans interact with in America are from foreign lands

Personally I don't care about the geographic origin of things. I have ancestors from multiple continents that have moved many thousands of miles around the world. Species move around, always have and always will. There are far better ways to focus on ecological improvement than foreign versus native

If we’re going for who’s “native”, then we all better get off the land and go back to the ocean.

 

[BlindLemonChicken]

I agree with @No Coop No Problem’s point about deforestation; if it weren’t for that there would be no need to micro-manage our own little parcels of land in much the same way that some species of animals would be extinct were it not for human intervention because at this point their natural habitat is a shadow of what it was. Then there’s the people that try to pet the bison at Yellowstone…but I digress

 

[TOMTE]

We don't need indiscriminate biodiversity, we need native biodiversity.

Exactly this! I strongly recommend everybody learn about their native wildlife and ecosystems and how to keep them healthy and thriving. And bringing up my point from before,

Sometimes there's subtle changes or things you can't see because they happen underground, for example (like earthworms messing up the soil layers of the forests here in Michigan— remains to be seen if it's a positive, negative, or neutral thing).

Just because you personally don't notice the negative effects of invasive organisms doesn't mean those negative effects aren't happening. You really need to have a lot of knowledge about native wildlife to understand how invasive wildlife destroys entire ecosystems. Native pollenator populations are declining because invasive plants which can't sustain them outcompete the native plants that they have historically fed on and that they have a symbiotic relationship with, invasive generalist pollenators are taking over, and light and noise pollution are also doing their fair share of damage too.

To bring this thread back on topic... What are some (preferably native) forest floor plants that 1) are good for chickens to forage from and 2) make good shelter for chickens?

Here in southwest Michigan we've got:

4 native fern species (Adiantum pedatum, maidenhair fern; Athyrium filix-femina, lady fern; Matteuccia struthiopteris, ostrich fern; and Onoclea sensibilis, sensitive fern) which grow beautifully at wooded edges, except for sensitive fern which needs at least partial sun.

A couple of shade-loving woody plants/shrubs (Cornus sericea, red-osier dogwood; and Lindera benzoin, spicebush).

And a lot more part-sun/shade tolerant shrubs and trees (Amelanchier laevis, smooth serviceberry; Ceanothus americanus, New Jersey tea; Cercis canadensis, redbud; Corylus americana, hazelnut; Ilex verticillata, winterberry; Physocarpus opulifolius, ninebark; Prunus serotina, wild black cherry; Sambucus nigra, elderberry; and Viburnum lentago, nannyberry).

Plus these wildflowers which grow well in shade (Actaea pachypoda, white baneberry; Actaea rubra, red baneberry; Aquilegia canadensis, wild columbine; Arisaema triphyllum, jack in the pulpit; Caulophyllum thalictroides, blue cohosh; Fragaria virginiana, wild strawberry; Geranium maculatum, wild geranium; Solidago flexicaulis, broad-leaf goldenrod; and Thalictrum dioicum, early meadow-rue)

And finally, the only native shade tolerant grass in my area, Elymus hystrix, bottlebrush grass.

 

[No Coop No Problem]

Bamboo in my climate is impossible to move through for a human being so I wouldn’t plant it except as a wall and even then because of the way it grows it would end up being a much wider wall than I intended and from what I’ve gathered from locals it’s not a thing that can be controlled. A bit of a Pandora’s box.

It's definitely not for everywhere. All things have their time and place, and what works wonderfully in one area can be a nightmare in another

To bring this thread back on topic... What are some (native) forest floor plants that 1) are good for chickens to forage from and 2) make good shelter for chickens?

Yaupon holly is the most chicken useful native plant in my region. It provides food, tree canopy that prevents hawks from seeing chickens, and it provides dense, low folliage that can physically stop a hawk attack. I've personally watched a hawk crash into a yaupon bush before trying to catch a two month old chick. It's their main roosting tree too