Challenges of living in the woods with chickens

[Carontheroad]

Right. Because evolution happens on a larger time scale than a human lifetime. So we can visualize adaptation and even effect it but determining what is “good” or “bad” might only be possible with hindsight in some cases. When a glacier advances and retreats it effectively bulldozes the ground underneath. This is good for the Devil’s club and other pioneer/opportunist species that grow in its wake. Bad for us trying to hike through it Good for the soil so it can later support trees, bushes, etc which are good for wildlife that might want to eat us. There are a lot of perspectives. In my situation, I want the “native” plants because I don’t want to have to do anything to manage the wild area that is already established. So even though I like butterfly bush and it does indeed attract butterflies, it also spreads easily here and takes over a niche that is better occupied by something that is considered a weed but that supports more “native” butterfly species. If I have to choose between letting a weed grow and planting a non-native bush and get better results with the weed, you better believe my lazy butt is going with the weed

I just bought a native weed at a farmers market for $10 (fireweed). It’s pretty and the lady said I could just water it on planting and then forget it. Which is all I could do because I planted it in a hard to reach area from water supply. You have to give alot of thought as to where you will plant it because it will spread.

We are in our second year of beekeeping and the honeybees feed on that when the other flowers are gone. People transport their honeybees 30 miles or so up the road to have access to the Fireweed. A botanist at the market approached me with my new plants (also bought a chickory root) and I think she thought I was nuts buying the Fireweed because she said you can just go to where they grow and grab a handful of seed fluff and bring it back. That’s definitely another way to do it but this was easier, the plant is established and I am supporting a local entrepeneur. More than one way to skin a cat. Where did that horrible saying come from?

 

[BlindLemonChicken]

More than one way to skin a cat. Where did that horrible saying come from?

I have wondered this myself because an engineer I worked with used to say it all the time. I would google it but I’m afraid of what I’ll find haha

 

[CabritaChicks]

I have wondered this myself because an engineer I worked with used to say it all the time. I would google it but I’m afraid of what I’ll find haha

The phrase “There’s more than one way to skin a cat” means there are multiple ways to solve a problem. It dates back to the mid-1800s, though earlier European variations existed. Despite the graphic wording, it’s 'not meant literally' (but I call bull- as I took anthropology getting my pHd... hogwash)—"cats" were just common in old sayings, and the phrase reflects practicality, not cruelty.

I used to say, "Be careful what you wish for."
Now I say, "Be careful what you Google—because it never forgets."

 

[BlindLemonChicken]

Despite the graphic wording, it’s 'not meant literally' (but I call bull- as I took anthropology getting my pHd... hogwash)

I know what it means colloquially but I am willing to bet a pinky toe you’re right about the hogwash. We have purged a lot of things from our collective memory that were probably common knowledge before Google. Because we used to actually have to know things and lots of tradition is oral. Lots if history is oral. And I am fairly certain someone somewhere was skinning cats…

 

[No Coop No Problem]

It's an open grassy flat area near the dry riverbed. Which is like... a large underground river underneath that pumps like millions of gallons of water a second down the mountain, but on top it's just a dry riverbed (unless we get enough rain but the banks are high). It does slightly trickle on the top in certain spaces, which is why we see so many differnet animals, it's a watering spot for many.

It's probably about an acre or two of grassland in front of the house, then behind the house is just straight up a mountain cliff (so woods). Then off to the side of the house (it's a 43 acre property) it's mostly just woods, but a few little flatter grassy areas that peak out around the riverbed as natural flood areas (though the banks are tlal enough its never actually flood much).

It's got a decent little aspen grove on it, and some really tall pine trees... a few sparse bushes... but it's more just a really large open field for awhile. Then our woods don't really have many bushes or things to hide in. A few wild rasberry bushes, but htye are like 6 pathetic twigs. A few juniper bushes, but those grow too low too the ground to get in. It's mostly just really tall pine trees blocking out the sun to the forest floor.

The chickens were red and brown ones (idk what breed), some peacocks (about 8 both male/female), and some black with white spots ginea fowl. So tbh they were decently easy to spot (maybe not the chickens as much, but they were the last to go). They picked them off slowly though. Like 1 or 2 every other week during certian seasons (like mating season or when they had young).

Open areas are a death sentence for chickens, especially fields. I think not knowing this is one of the reasons why many people have problems free-ranging. They place jungle creatures into a big empty area and expect them to survive somehow

Tree canopies block the vision of hawks and will prevent many attacks. Then thick ground vegetation provides shelter for when hawks actually do attack

 

[Appalachickens]

I just googled it. I wonder if it would grow in the Pacific northwest? I have planted some clumping bamboo and they are doing okay but not thriving. I’ll have to see if I can get Arundinaria out here.

It's not native to the PNW, but might grow there anyway. In these parts a lot of people try to get rid of bamboo and find to their dismay that they can't!

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

Open areas are a death sentence for chickens, especially fields. I think not knowing this is one of the reasons why many people have problems free-ranging. They place jungle creatures into a big empty area and expect them to survive somehow

Tree canopies block the vision of hawks and will prevent many attacks. Then thick ground vegetation provides shelter for when hawks actually do attack

I agree with you, but would also add the qualifier that there are woodland hawks that specialize in killing birds, and those hawks hunt better in thick tree cover than in the open.

The sharp-shinned hawk, the Cooper’s hawk, and the northern goshawk. They’re all basically the same bird that comes in three different sizes. They hunt by hiding behind tree trunks and leap frogging their way to their target until they’re within range of a speed attack. The only birds of prey, besides bald eagles, that are consistently good at catching my chickens are sharp-shinned hawks and goshawks. The sharp-shinned hawks take bantams in flight, and the goshawks take adults in deep cover. But specific to the goshawk, their success depends on whether the chickens are in my farmyard or in the cover of thick woods. The goshawk has a high success rate in the woods and a low success rate in the farmyard.

From the sky, my farmyard looks like 2 acres of bahia pasture. Lots of open grass. Yet if you start looking at tree lines that intersect the farmyard, you’d see that a chicken is never more than 50 yards from cover. The cover comes in the form of fence lines, hedge (blueberry) rows, briar patches, farm equipment, and open air barns.

The overall effect is that the chickens can feed in what amounts to open meadow and sprint or fly to cover when they see a bird of prey. The goshawk doesn’t have enough tree trunk cover to leapfrog itself within range. And other species simply aren’t effective against the chickens. I haven’t had serious issues with sharp-shinned hawks in about 3 years, since I moved to increase the body size of my free-rangers.

Fence-line habitat, in other words. Open meadow interspersed with lines of thick cover. My ideal farmyard chicken habitat.

As an aside, we aren’t supposed to have goshawks in Florida. I absolutely have a resident one. Deadly bird.

 

[ColoradoChicken89]

Open areas are a death sentence for chickens, especially fields. I think not knowing this is one of the reasons why many people have problems free-ranging. They place jungle creatures into a big empty area and expect them to survive somehow

Tree canopies block the vision of hawks and will prevent many attacks. Then thick ground vegetation provides shelter for when hawks actually do attack

EXACTLY!!!! I kept trying to tell him, it just really wasn't going to work without some real planning for some more coverage. At least where we are. Be it natural or man made. I'm sure some people with less predators or a thicker underbrush probably have an easier time of it. The peacocks didn't help either, they were really flashy and easy to spot... plus just very loud and flashy.

We have 2 or 3 mating pairs of hawks that come back yearly to make their babies, so they really know the land. They are magificent to watch though, so def plan on doing everything I can to keep them coming back! So it kinda makes it a rock and a hard place, that I probably won't ever try 100% free range. At least not in various seasons when the hawks and eagles are mating. If I did, I would need to propagate a lot more ground coverage, and probably just expect one to get picked off from time to time. The hawks really help with snake/mice populations too, so tbh I would just prefer to figure out a way to get them all to just co-exsist well enough.

It's kinda why I'm going more "man-made" style ... at least for now. I want to eventually propagate some willow and rose bushes into like a "living fence" around the run, and some things, to at least give them the feel they aren't fully fenced in all the time, or like they are living slightly wild lol.

Which is where I like this thread. It gives me some ideas of ways I can at least rethink some things to at least give them a somewhat more natural style life.

 

[ColoradoChicken89]

It is very true that we can’t undo history. Whether an organism was introduced deliberately or by accident, it’s here now.

And it’s worth noting that the vast majority of non-native plants are NOT invasive and don’t adversely affect the environment. Chickens, for instance.

But it’s very important to preserve biodiversity in the form of native plants and animals, because we often don’t know their potential for helping humans and other species.

So no, I’m not tearing out my Japanese Kurume hybrid azaleas (all the rage several decades ago), but I’m adding native azaleas and rhododendrons. And I buy very few non-native plants these days, whose primary function is eye candy for humans. Instead I buy native wildflowers, equally lovely in different ways, that support native pollinators, many of which are threatened to the point of extinction by habitat loss and by improper and indiscriminate use of broad-spectrum insecticides.

My small city front yard, as of a few days ago (no room for an oak, lol):

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I'm finally just getting through this thread better, but I think you say it well. It's not really about always doing things 100% what is native, but to be deliberate with our choices, and responsible for when nature isn't predictable (to us).

For a few years we had a really bad stint of pine beetles (they kill pinetrees and leave a lot to burn in a forest fire), and out of no where these little owls just evolved. Little tiny pigmy looking owls! It was crazy! They eat the adult pine beetles, so now it's like the two together just live in harmony, but it's like... we really can't predict what nature will do.

https://www.fox21news.com/top-stories/mysterious-owl-species-being-studied-near-woodland-park/

 

[BlindLemonChicken]

Or Jedediah?

Found it! Spieden Island. I was fixin to lose sleep trying to remember the name or just comes to terms with being old and crazy haha

https://debgarland.com/?p=630