Chamois Brabanter Project

[Holew-L]

I have a young flock of cream brabanters and I have been looking on eBay and I have found Chamois Spangled Appenzeller spitzhaubens. Chamois brabanters, (only available in Europe) look just about identical to the chamois spitzies except for the beard and muffs. I am really thinking about crossing the two and building up the color and the beard and muffs to create a chamois brabanter. I think this would be a really neat project that is easy to accomplish.

 

[Holew-L]

Chamois Spitzhaubens

Chamois Brabanters (European)

 

[nicalandia]

I think this would be a really neat project that is easy to accomplish.

I agree, the pattern is based on the same Spangled Genetic background and diluted with dominant white, If you cross your cream brabanters with Chamois Spangled Appenzeller spitzhaubens the first cross will give you Chamois looking birds right out of the gate, all you need to do is take your best F1 and cross it back to cream brabanters, you just need to make sure you keep the birds with dominant white and none cream.

Cream Brabanters genetic background for the pattern:
ER/ER, s+/s+ ig/ig Db/Db, Pg/Pg, Ml/Ml i+/i+

Chamois Spangled Appenzeller spitzhaubens genetic background for the pattern:
ER/ER, s+/s+ Ig+/Ig+, Db/Db, Pg/Pg, Ml/Ml, I/I

The offsprings of this cross will be:
ER/ER, s+/s+ Ig+/ig, Db/Db, Pg/Pg, Ml/Ml, I/i+ So very Chamois looking, Ig+/ig will make the birds none cream, and I/i+ may show some black specks where white should be, but very much Chamois looking, now the tricky part would be crossing back to Cream Brabanters, you will get none-cream Brabanters, Cream Chamois, Cream Brabanters and Chamois, you will need to breed quite alot to keep the Chamois look going.

If you cross the Chamois looking BC1xBC1 to each other you can expect many None-Cream Brabanters, Cream Brabanters, Heterozygous dominant white Cream Chamois Brabanters(black flecks on white feathers), Homozygous dominant white Cream Chamois Brabanters(no sign of black flecks on white feathers), Heterozygous dominant white Chamois Brabanters(black flecks on white feathers), Homozygous dominant white Chamois Brabanters(no sign of black flecks on white feathers).

That is alot of variables introduced by the cream gene, if I were you I would start with regular gold Brabanters and Chamois Spangled Appenzeller spitzhaubens, that way the only variable will be dominant white, less hatching required to avoid the creams, unless you want cream chamois Spangled Appenzeller spitzhaubens

 

[Holew-L]

I agree, the pattern is based on the same Spangled Genetic background and diluted with dominant white, If you cross your cream brabanters with Chamois Spangled Appenzeller spitzhaubens the first cross will give you Chamois looking birds right out of the gate, all you need to do is take your best F1 and cross it back to cream brabanters, you just need to make sure you keep the birds with dominant white and none cream.

Cream Brabanters genetic background for the pattern:
ER/ER, s+/s+ ig/ig Db/Db, Pg/Pg, Ml/Ml i+/i+

Chamois Spangled Appenzeller spitzhaubens genetic background for the pattern:
ER/ER, s+/s+ Ig+/Ig+, Db/Db, Pg/Pg, Ml/Ml, I/I

The offsprings of this cross will be:
ER/ER, s+/s+ Ig+/ig, Db/Db, Pg/Pg, Ml/Ml, I/i+ So very Chamois looking, Ig+/ig will make the birds none cream, and I/i+ may show some black specks where white should be, but very much Chamois looking, now the tricky part would be crossing back to Cream Brabanters, you will get none-cream Brabanters, Cream Chamois, Cream Brabanters and Chamois, you will need to breed quite alot to keep the Chamois look going.

Thanks for the info! I have the cream Brabanters, and i will get the Chamois Spitzhauben next year.

 

[nicalandia]

Thanks for the info! I have the cream Brabanters, and i will get the Chamois Spitzhauben next year.

That is alot of variables introduced by the cream gene, if I were you I would start with regular gold Brabanters and Chamois Spangled Appenzeller spitzhaubens, that way the only variable will be dominant white, less hatching required to avoid the creams, unless you want cream chamois Spangled Appenzeller spitzhaubens

 

[Holew-L]

That is alot of variables introduced by the cream gene, if I were you I would start with regular gold Brabanters and Chamois Spangled Appenzeller spitzhaubens, that way the only variable will be dominant white, less hatching required to avoid the creams, unless you want cream chamois Spangled Appenzeller spitzhaubens

perhaps i will look into gold brabanters next year. i have been thinking, would bearded buff laced polish be helpful with this project at all. im fairly certain that buff and chamois are the same thing, an i have some BLP.

 

[Holew-L]

@nicalandia
Here is a picture of a Bantam Buff Laced Polish rooster X easter egger hen (the hen was some sort of mix of a brahma.) Im posting this because the hen looks an awful lot like a chamois spitz and i have standard BLP. I was thinking that they could possibly be used somehow to make a chamois Brabanter, Polish have been used in the past to re create the brabanter. Btw, not even sure in BLP would be helpful but ive been thinking about this all day.

Thank you for all the info so far.

 

[nicalandia]

Here is a picture of a Bantam Buff Laced Polish rooster X easter egger hen
Thank you for all the info so far.

I am really against introducing unknown/unseen variables to your project, but you can try to do a test cross and the F1 should really look very much like the Chamois

 

[Holew-L]

What test cross would you reccomend i do. I’m very new to this and I don’t know genetics like you do.

@nicalandia

 

[nicalandia]

What test cross would you reccomend i do. I’m very new to this and I don’t know genetics like you do.

@nicalandia

Use a brabanter rooster on that Bantam Buff Laced Polish rooster X hen and see what hatches