Changing flock dynamics

[saysfaa]

I wrote this two days ago and thought I deleted it. Things changed. Questions in reply post, and probably enough info, I left this for more details if it helps.

no questions, really, just observation

My flock started out as 11 chicks: 8 australorps and 3 brown leghorns. I decreased numbers in three stages. The cockerel and another chick at five weeks, one chick a week later, and three pullets this week (at 11 weeks old).

I saw a significant difference in flock dynamics with the cockerel gone... all changes I expected without him dashing about challenging everyone much of the time. I didn't see much difference with the chick leaving a week later.

As old as they are now and more of them at a time and from a smaller flock - I thought they might be a bit traumatized at the loss or leery of me who took them away. They don't seem to be. I can't see any difference at all in how readily they come to me, how readily they stand on my knee to groom when I sit with them, how readily and how long they chillax next to me. Nothing. Except -

Except Spice. Spice is one of the brown leghorns. She has always been the busiest chick, by far, always digging around in the leave bags for insect tidbits to suss out, and checking if any flying insects made it in the coop. About half the time by herself as the others hung out near me. The other half, she would spend most of it resting or grooming - over half of that still over by herself but sometimes the others wandered near her and sometimes she would come near me. She didn't seem to be at all leery of me. She would readily hop up on my knee to look around or groom a bit or roost at little.

For two days now, she has been indistinguishable from the others. It is like she has fully joined the flock.

I don't think she was picked on. Best I could tell, she was (still is) the top of the pecking order. I don't think I have ever seen her give way to anyone else.

 

[saysfaa]

I think I made a mistake. I downsized my flock and I think I should have stuck with the original plan of all one breed. I still can, with these birds - if I'm willing to go down to three.

I liked the dynamics of three leghorns to eight australorps. The leghorns willingness to try new things benefitted the australorps who learned from them. And the australorps calmed and steadied the leghorns. The dynamics stayed good through gradual reductions to two leghorns and six australorps.

Numbers stayed there for over a month. As of 3 days ago, I have 2 leghorns and three australorps. No blood yet, or pulled feathers but the australorps have stopped moving. When they move, they get pecked by the leghorns. Even moves away from the leghorns. It seems to be amusement for the leghorns, they are so much quicker than the aussies that they have no trouble zooming over from quite a distance to give a peck. And no trouble at all dodging the aussies, although the aussie have stopped trying.

They have 135 square feet of clear floor space for the 5 of them. There are five line of sight blockers.

I hope I'm jumping to conclusions because I was afraid the two breeds might not be compatible because of their different temperament or activity levels. Maybe they are just working things out?

I watched for whether the two breeds (or my example of each) were compatible as I was deciding who I would keep.. basically, since they were day olds. I saw different levels of flightiness - as in reactiveness. One leghorn (Spice) was a lot more busy but she was busy away from the others. She spent a lot of time hunting in the leaves and litter. The other leghorn (Nutmeg) acted like the aussies and was usually with the aussies.

Spice stopped being a loner. The first day, she acted much like Nutmeg. Now she is acting like a tyrant and Nutmeg doing it too, to a lesser degree.

I think either one of aussies that is gone was top of the pecking order and kept Spice in check or Spice has been top but six (seven, if counting Nutmeg) calm birds tempered her a lot more than three does.

Should I give them more time to work it out? Or should I remove Spice too before she teaches them a bad example of how a top girl behaves?

 

[Mrs. K]

I see that you joined in 2017, and that confuses me, because when I read your post, it sounded like a first flock.

My question is how old are your birds. What I am wondering, are the leghorns coming on to lay - or is this an older flock?

Sometimes you do get a bird that does not work in the flock. Try pulling her from the flock of a few days... see if the flock relaxes. Sometimes you can put her back, and it will work. Sometimes it doesn't and the bird needs to be removed from that group.

always solve for peace in the flock.

Mrs K

 

[saysfaa]

This is my first flock. They are 11 1/2 weeks old so not very near point of lay.

I grew up on a farm: mostly fruit, vegetables, and beef; then dairy. Always various other things. No chickens since I was about 3; I just barely remember them but didn't any of the care of them. I've lived in subdivisions as an adult and planned farms as a hobby, hoping to someday have a few pieces of farming again. I like to research, especially farming things, I actually lurked here for years before joining. .

Your advice makes sense. I can do that but not necessarily now. I'm sure it is better to do it sooner rather than later. Do you think it makes a lot of difference? Or I might be able to separate her in the coop with a wire wall between her and the rest. We are still building the planned divider wall; might be able to finish it today.

I leave the day after tommorrow for at least three days. My mother is in hospice. My sister and I are settling her in at my sister's house (6 hrs away) instead of here. Depending on how quickly she needs more help, I may be staying there a week or longer.

My husband will be feeding and watering the flock but he (bless his heart) is very much a city boy. He is surprisingly tolerant of and maybe even a tiny bit interested in the chicks but isn't going to do much more than feed, water, and count them.

 

[saysfaa]

always solve for peace in the flock.

Mrs K

I very much agree. I will go down to three or even start over if I have to. I really wanted more than three.

The other thing I worry about is whether this kind of problem will come back or get worse in the winter. Now, they spend a lot of time in their bathtub and hunting in the leaf bags. Both will be a lot less available when it gets below freezing - most of the time between Oct and April.

 

[Mrs. K]

Ok, if it is a young flock, I would just add more feed stations - hidden feed stations, where as a bird eating at one, is not visible to birds eating at another. Leave them as they are for now, at 11 weeks.

Why have you gotten rid of so many of the chicks? That is quite a few to remove at that age, and if confuses me.

You are making too much of this, is what I am thinking, a little healthy neglect - such as your husband just feeding them for a week might just be a good thing.

A picture of your set up would help, as the comment on the bathtub and leaf litter confuses me. What kind of coop do you have, with measurements of the coop and the run (the outside part).

 

[saysfaa]

It is 10x14 wooden shed, no run. Right m
Now they have all of it. The intention is for them to have 8' feet of it, so 8x10.

Ventilation is side door (4' wide x 7' high) open 24/7/365. Plus, in the summer, eave vents and ridge vent, and 2 windows (each 24x30 or so).

And my husband came out to help build the dividing wall, so the rest later.

 

[Mrs. K]

Well, they need to be able to go outside, in my opinion. Even if you don't have a run, you can let them out, and they should hang around. Without a secure run, you do run the chance of predators. My chickens spend the entire day outside, they have the choice, inside or out, and choose out 98% of the time. Rain or shine, heat or cold. q

You spoke of line of sight breaks but you really don't have that. The roosts are good. Not quite sure what the paper bags are?

Try adding a couple of pallets, leaned against a wall, and up on cement blocks. Put up small pieces of plywood or even cardboard, and place a feed bowl behind it. I call this adding clutter. It should look cluttered verse open. It will look crowded to you, but much more interesting to your birds. They need places they can get under neath, on top of, or behind, so that they can get away from each other. They need hideouts, and escape routes.

Then occasionally rearrange the 'furniture' just to keep the interest up.

You have a great start.

Mrs K

 

[saysfaa]

... Why have you gotten rid of so many of the chicks? That is quite a few to remove at that age, and if confuses me.

Because I figured between 4 and 6 hens is the best compromise of all my goals and purposes of having chickens. I picked up 11 because I was pretty sure I would lose some due to inexperience, brooding with a wool hen instead of electric heat, or the travel home. The travel home was much less than ideal... not just distance but distance broken up a stop of several days (but I could pick them up where they hatched).

I asked for 7 pullets of the breed I thought the best fit. And 3 pullets of the breed I thought I might like better but was riskier as far as being suitable here. They gave me an 8th pullet of the first breed.

I thought worst case scenario was too many die and I start over with feed store chicks. If they all lived, I would try to find someone who wanted trios of started chicks.

They all thrived.

Outside would be nice. I think I am keeping my chickens legally but only due to a loophole in the zoning regulations. I'm more concerned about the loophole coming to the attention of the zoning board than about predators.

The bags are standard yard waste bags filled with autumn leaves. I filled a lot of them last year to get the leaves off the lawn. Before we decided to get the chicks, I intended to use them as mulch or compost. Instead, I used the leaves as part of the bedding. When the chicks moved to the shed, I took several bags out there and then started emptying them. I noticed the chicks playing on the bags and left them one.

They hid behind it, jumped on top of it, scratched at it, scratched in it, worked holes it it, ate the creepy crawlies in in. So when that one started flattening and falling apart too much, I took them a few more. The bags in the picture are getting to the end of their usefulness.

Dh got much of the framing of the divider wall built and installed. That will help with deciding what clutter to put in.

 

[Chicalina]

I agree, add more clutter and give them some outside space, fresh air and sunshine. Build a jungle gym for them. If there is a loophole, exploit it, let your chickens live their best life, and don't live in fear. Give eggs to your neighbours (when they eventually lay) if that is what it takes to keep everyone happy.

You are overthinking everything!