Charlotte County Florida ordinances

[ChickChick Nana]

Hi MaybeChickens,
Thanks for responding. I would really like to get a group of us interested in raising chickens to get together. My girlfriend stated that many may not want to come forward in fear of being identified and then having to get rid of what they have. I currently have 12 buff orpingtons that are 6 weeks today. I fear one neighbor of mine would complain and then I would have to get rid of them. I don't have a plan B, no one would be able to take them in that I know. I do plan to ask the other three neighbors that border my house and see if they mind.
I have a german shepard that has gotten out three times in the last year and I do have a couple neighbors across the street that were upset and did call the SO. I just want to make it okay to have laying hens to help with our food expense and eating healthier. Please include me on your list if you plan to pursue attending a meeting. If there is anything I can help with please let me know, I will message you my telephone number.

 

[maybechickens]

Hi,

I actually have a list of "chicken allies", and I will add your name to it. It's not large, but it's occasionally growing. You're right, people may worry about having code compliance arrive after a meeting, but personally I doubt they would take it to that level. From what I've heard in code compliance, they just respond to complaints, and they get a handful per week, so you know there's a lot of chicken keepers out there already... and yet I've never seen one running loose, or causing hazard to public health, etc.

 

[raceban2003]

So after some serious research and contacting different agencies including code enforcement and the County attorney. It comes down to this. Since raising of poultry is specifically mentioned in AG zoning and never mentioned in any other zoning it is NOT ALLOWED. here is the problem with this.. this is a example and the county laws are set up this way. If in one zoning it specifically say you cannot park on your property in any un-paved area but yet that rule is not mentioned in any other zoning. The county considers that as it is against the code in all areas. Its not right and they get a way it. I have asked a local attorney and it is confirmed that if you live in any place that is not designated as Agricultural or AG then it is not allowed to raise live stock or poultry.

With that said I think its about time for people to get together and fight this one.

 

[maybechickens]

Congrats for getting down to the details on this! I have wondered for years. My first question - where in the county ordinances does it describe this "illegal by default unless mentioned" law? And how do we know whether to assume illegal by default, or legal by default?

In your example, you say that one zone may disallow parking on your property in un-paved areas... but does that mean other areas are the opposite, so parking in un-paved areas is allowed? Or is the policy a blanket "disallow whenever it's not mentioned"? That seems most likely, I guess... (head spinning due to fuzzy logic!).

Additionally, this ordinance specifically mentions poultry as a domesticated animal, and does not specifically include/exclude ANY zones:

http://charlottecountyfl.com/Animal/FinalOrdinanceBooklet.pdf

So, not to nitpick, but while the county may have one stance, they need that stance stated in the record books to back it up. The link above tells me that poultry is happy to be had in our backyards, in any quantity, as long as it's not reported as a nuisance. And if it reported, the link above says you can get the animal(s) back within 5 days I think along with a fine... though it's been awhile since I read it.

So who wants to attend a county commissioners' meeting?

 

[raceban2003]

Yeah its kinda weird the way they adopt the codes. lol here is the response I received from the county code manager Its even funnier when you read it over and over


I asked "Just because it is not mentioned does not mean its not allowed correct?"

and he wrote back lol....

"you are incorrect….because it is specifically mentioned in ag zoning and NEVER mentioned in other zoning is precisely the reason it is NOT allowed anywhere else"

Here is what the attorney (Not a county attorney a private attorney I posed the question too, says:

"The interpretation that you were provided is consistent with widely accepted statutory interpretation. You will most likely be fined in the event you decide to raise poultry outside of agricultural areas. William B. Esq. : If something is expressly permitted in one area, it is then inferred that the drafters of the code knew how to include it in the code section and expressly omitted the conduct from the other areas. William B. Esq. : Inclusion in one, and omission in the other, means that the prohibition is going to be enforceable."

I find it all a bunch of crap and still getting my chickens lol

One other small little point I am working on that may help us all out. In the county code Sec 1-4-25 under animal control they list as follows

1-4-25 (b) Domestic animal means any equine or bovine animal, goat, sheep, swine, dog,cat, poultry, or other domesticated beast or bird.

So I am working to use that to our benefit here, if Animal control shows this as a "domestic animal" then I believe there is no legal standing for Code Enforcement since it would fall under Animal control. So I am still working on this issue and will let you know. But as I said I am still getting my chickens until they prove to me its written in a code that I cant have them, screw em lol..

 

[maybechickens]

Your quote is exactly what I've been linking to, and refutes the code manager's statement that poultry is "NEVER mentioned in other zoning". But thinking about this further, how do code enforcement and animal control interact? They are both listed in ordinances, so both valid and no hierarchy, right (i.e. one ordinance does not trump the other)?

So it is indeed mentioned and described for ALL zoning as a domesticated bird. That's my story and I'm sticking to it

 

[ChooksinChoppers]

That was a good find Raceban! I should update my situation and say I am no longer in lee county (thankfully) Now in Marion Co (Ocala) and have 3 hens at present. We also have a horse in our backyard LOL although we live on a small lot, it is part of 5 acres zoned Ag and has 5 other homes on it. Our closest neighbor has several chickens and at least 2 roos, lovely hispanic family who give us all their eggs as they don't eat eggs they only eat chicken. Anyway...after going from keeping our chickens in the garage in lee county to this is just bliss. I sure hope ALL the county commisioners out there come to their senses and allow chickens everywhere. Surely there is enough info out there now-a-days for them to see that a few chickens in someone's backyard does no harm to anyone. Sure put a limit on it and no Roosters, but the cost of food is rising daily and it's about time they let us help ourselves.

 

[raceban2003]

LOL now thats funny, how do they interact with each other.. I will tell you a story we had a garage built and needed two inspections one from code enforcement and one from the building dept. they arrived at the same time in different trucks. They walked by each other the code enforcement guy did not say anything not even hello as they passed each other. So I dont think Code enforcement plays nice with ANYONE

 

[maybechickens]

So "interaction" may not be a great description, eh?! I'd like to know more... I will brainstorm people I know in county offices... maybe will be able to yield more info how they "interact".

 

[EightIsEnough]

Please add to me your your "allies" listing - and when to meet for the county meetings. I heard that there will be a vote come September (Charlotte Country Board) on zoning, and I want to be at earlier meetings to rally the cause and make sure they vote for zoning changes. The changes would allow RE-5 (residential estates on 5 acres) to be zoned agricultural, and allow chickens. My chickens were spotted by an inspector on an annoymous tip and I had to remove my chickens - I was heart broken, Please keep me in the loop on this - thank you.