Chick door size?

[pibb]

I have one of those cheap 8x8' metal buildings that I brood out of. Since metal buildings can get pretty hot inside when the sun hits it, I am going to make a small waterproof metal door out of my shed/brooder so the chicks can escape the heat when this happens, something like doggy door. I have fans and extra vents but the temp can still get pretty high. I feel better about the door than I do the fans because the chicks can just walk outside in a fenced in portion if they get too hot and can go back in if they get cold. I may even be able to stop using a fan or two so I can keep my cost down.

I don't have any chicks right at this moment but plan to in the spring. I just need to know the door opening size for chicks up until they feather out. They leave this shed and go to the coop when fully feathered. I don't really remember what size my previous chicks got up to and I don't want to make a door bigger than what's needed, just big enough they can get in and out.

What size should I make the opening?

 

[azygous]

Chicks can fit through an opening 5" x 7" until they are ten weeks old. Does that help?

I do question the hot metal shed, though, and expecting chicks to be smart enough to use the small door to escape the heat. I fear some may not be quite as intelligent as you expect, and you may lose a number of them to hyperthermia.

 

[pibb]

Yes that helps. Thanks.

Do you think they are not smart enough to go out or come back in or both?

I have successfully used the shed before as a brooder but have had to run vent fans and open the door, then close the door and turn off fans. A good size cloud coming by will make the temp change too and its alot of work and time trying to keep an eye on it. Im trying to figure out something a little less worrysome. I now have a thermostat that I can control the fans with so the fans coming on and off are no problem now.

 

[azygous]

My experience with baby chicks is they will choose the more harmful of two choices. So, yes, I think there's a high probability the chicks will not figure out that it's cooler on the other side of the tiny door and use it to escape their certain doom in a hot shed. It's not one of the survival instincts chicks possess.

Another behavior chicks have is to be very reluctant to explore beyond the familiar, especially when they can't see what's there. Their survival instinct does include knowing that they are prey and that's why they won't dart out beyond where they can see what may be lurking. Best to plan for that and somehow make sure the temp in the shed doesn't turn it into an EZBake oven.

 

[pibb]

Perhaps when I said doggy door, it is being percieved as an air curtain type door. Not the case. Just to clarify the door, it is not something Im buying but something I am going to make out of metal myself.

It will be a small metal door that hinges up towards the outside (and stays up) and closes flush when I let it back down and can be locked so nothing can enter. I open and close the door. The doorway is either open or closed, no curtain in the way.. They can see outside and should be able to feel its cooler out there. Thats the best I can desribe it.

Do you still think they will have a problem?

 

[azygous]

Yes, knowing chicks and understanding their tiny little brains, they cannot be relied on to move themselves out of a hot building if they have not become familiar with the outside of the shed first. They will be more inclined to cling to the safety and security of the inside of the shed than to run out of the shed.

Chicks raised in a brooder under a hot lamp will have this same problem. Unless a brooder has convenient cool areas for a chick to shed excess heat, they will become overheated and lethargic. When they reach this tipping point, they remain under the hot lamp and cook to death.

The thing to understand about chicks still in down is that they are like lizards that rely on moving in and out of warm and cool zones in order to regulate their body temperature. They have no ability to insulate themselves against temperature fluctuations. If they become chilled, they need to have a heat source to warm up under. If they become overheated, they need a cool zone within easy reach to dissipate the heat in a heat exchange. Just having fans to move the hot air around isn't going to allow an overheated chick to bring their body temp back down if the ambient temp remains hot.

Unless the chicks can develop feather insulation and develop the maturity and confidence to freely move in and out of the shed before it becomes an oven, you should plan on having the chicks all moved out of this brooding shed long before the weather becomes so hot as to create the dangerous conditions where overheating is such a huge risk.

 

[aart]

I am going to make a small waterproof metal door out of my shed/brooder so the chicks can escape the heat when this happens, something like doggy door.

Where will they go?
Is there a weather and predator proof run outside this door?
Why is it just for chicks?
Why not make it regular pop door size?
If you need to exclude larger/older birds 5x7 will likely be too big.
Pics of your set up might help.
Might need Best to make this coop well ventilated 24/7.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Not sure why you don't want to make the opening bigger? There can be legitimate reasons, just don't know what yours are. I personally like openings that all can use, that allows me the flexibility if I need it for another purpose. I've had full-sized-fowl hens use a nest opening 6" high and 8" wide. Not sure a 5' x 7" will exclude much. That depends on what you want to exclude but. yes, chicks can certainly use it.

My electric netting has vertical strands every 3". The height of each level varies, starts out pretty close at the bottom and gets taller as you go up. I'm not sure what the height is where they go out, they can hop up some and it is flexible, not rigid. But my full-sized fowl chicks can go through this netting until they are around 7 weeks old. Broilers grow faster, bantams are going to be smaller. With the sides flexible I can't give you a specific size of opening and age but the openings probably don't need to be real big.

Have you checked the temperature on the floor where the chicks are? That's the critical temperature. Hot air rises so it might not be as hot as you think down there. Having high vents can help with that plus having an opening where cooler air can enter is a big benefit. I'd probably put an opening at ground level, covered with hardware cloth for predators, on the north side in the shade. That's probably the coolest air you have around.

This could be a good place for insulation, at least on the sunny sides, south and west in Knoxville. The sun heats up the metal and the heat can radiate out into the coop/brooder. They will eat many kinds of insulation so if you use a foam or fiber type, cover it. But just a piece of plywood either on the inside or outside could be a big help. Wood by itself is a good insulator. This could make a huge difference.

I regularly brood chicks in a brooder in my coop, often when the outside temperatures are below freezing and occasionally in the heat of summer when it is over 100 F. The +100 F is more of a challenge. In winter I try to keep one end warm enough in the coolest temperatures and another spot cool enough in the warmest temperatures. I find that chicks straight out of the incubator or from the post office are pretty good at self-regulating heat. They move to a comfortable spot. I don't know how many chicks or what breeds you plan to brood in that 8x8 building. I don't know what the outside looks like. All this might have an effect on how yours self-regulate. Also, sometimes when I open a door from a coop to the run, all the chicks might be in the run within 15 minutes. Sometimes it takes three days before they all are venturous enough to go outside. Each brood is different.

For what it is worth, this is my brooder in the coop. It's elevated and I have a wire bottom to it. In summer that wire bottom gives good ventilation. In winter I put pieces of plywood on that wire to help keep them warm. You may notice that the back wall of the brooder and the coop is metal. That's the western hot exposure. I do not put any insulation on it. It can get really hot on a summer afternoon but I haven't lost a chick because of that. This is a different situation than yours but it's part of why I'm questioning how hot it really is where your chicks are.

 

[pibb]

I would have to make a small temporary run outside this door.

Its also a storage shed. I have two coops so no need for the chickens to take over my shed. About half the shed is boxed off as a brooder, no top just sides. When not brooding the space goes back to storage.

I brooded in the house my first time and never again so this is where they are going to be, even if someone has to constantly walk down there. You couldn't install enough vents to keep it at ambient temp if the sun is hitting it. Opening the door (using fencing at the opening) and using the fans solves the problem but have to be here to do it.

These are ventilation fans. One pulls air out and the other pulls fresh air in via ducting. These do pretty good as long as the power doesn't go out. The downside is If it is 90F outside, you are still pulling in 90F air.

As far as the door size goes, I guess it could be regular size, but a smaller size will be easier for me to make since it will fit between the ripples in the metal and be easier to keep water out. I just dont need it to be any bigger than 6-8 week old chick size. Right now my planned opening is 5.25"x8".

Plan B is if my door fails for letting the chicks out, I can still weld some fencing there to keep them in and still use the opening as floor level ventilation which can be opened or closed.

 

[aart]

Are your coops big enough to split part off as a brooder?
That's the way I went when I got fed up with brooding in the house,
then you can start integration earlier.
integrating-new-birds-at-4-weeks-old