Chick eggtopsy - what went wrong? **GRAPHIC**

[rmattise]

I had 2 hamburg bantams and one dutch bantam that went in the hatcher about three days ago. Needless to say, none of them hatched, and I'm incredibly disappointed. All 3 had confirmed movement on day 19 when I moved them from incubator to hatcher.
****warning - GRAPHIC images****
All three chicks seem to have passed around the same time. I'm completely lost on what's wrong, though, because I had quail eggs hatching at the same time that have emerged with no issues. There was a lot of fluid in all three eggs, but the air cells were the correct size for that point in incubation, and if humidity or temperature was the culprit, why would the quail hatch without a problem?
The hamburg and dutch eggs came in the same shipment, so perhaps that was the culprit? Maybe some kind if bacteria got to them all from the hatcher itself?
If anyone has any suggestions, leave a comment below. All of the chicks are under-developed and in varying stages of yolks absorption, but none made it to the final day. I'm completely lost and incredibly disappointed - hamburgs are my favorite breed of chicken, and I was SO looking forward to these chicks, so I'd really like to prevent this from happening again!

 

[LaFleche]

All 3 had confirmed movement on day 19 when I moved them from incubator to hatcher.

The right time to ultimately move them is on day 18.

All three chicks seem to have passed around the same time.

This seems to be the moment they internally pipped and drowned in the excessive amount of albumen.

I'm completely lost on what's wrong, though, because I had quail eggs hatching at the same time that have emerged with no issues.

As quail eggs are a lot smaller they have different requirements for incubation, i.e. shorter incubation period and lower temperature than chicken eggs would need to allow for proper development and hatching.

There was a lot of fluid in all three eggs, but the air cells were the correct size for that point in incubation, and if humidity or temperature was the culprit, why would the quail hatch without a problem?

Based on your description I assume that the incubator temperature was too low, the development of the chicken eggs therefore deferred and too much albumen was left when they internally pipped.

 

[LaFleche]

Another possible reason might be an underlying health issue of the parent birds that might not show in adult chickens, such as for instance salmonella infection.

Lastly it could be due to too much protein in the parent birds feed which leads to the production of too much albumen in the eggs and thus drowning of the chicks. It is therefore recommended to reduce the protein intake for the parent birds while collecting hatching eggs.

 

[rmattise]

The right time to ultimately move them is on day 18.



This seems to be the moment they internally pipped and drowned in the excessive amount of albumen.



As quail eggs are a lot smaller they have different requirements for incubation, i.e. shorter incubation period and lower temperature than chicken eggs would need to allow for proper development and hatching.



Based on your description I assume that the incubator temperature was too low, the development of the chicken eggs therefore deferred and too much albumen was left when they internally pipped.

I'm aware that quail and chicken requirements are different, but they're similar enough to where it doesn't really matter in practice. I've been hatching chickens alongside quail for months without issues - my quail are more of a "side hustle," so to speak, so I keep my incubator at optimal chicken-hatching parameters. The quail hatch out just fine this way - maybe not at 100% hatch rate, but enough to where it's acceptable for a side hustle (typically, the only quail eggs I set that don't hatch are infertile or non-viable).
Additionally, I did move them on day 18 (typo, sorry). Perhaps I should have been moving them even earlier since these were bantam eggs? Some online sources say this is a good idea, but I've never tried it.
Third, there was no internal pip on all three eggs - I should have clarified this more. The membrane is even still intact on one of the eggs I autopsied. I'm not sure if you can see it in the picture or not - the intact chick wasn't even in position to pip yet. As such, I can't see how it could have been due to drowning in the egg, since the chicks weren't breathing air yet. The fluid I was referring to was still inside the membrane on all three chicks (some remnant of amniotic fluid perhaps?)
I would assume that the deaths happened shortly after I moved the chicks to the hatcher from my incubator, which is why i was questioning a bacterial infection or such.
I keep my incubator in my basement, where temperature and humidity remain very stable. Unless the power went out while I wasnt home, then came back on before I got back, I cant see how that could have been the problem, either.
It could have been the parent stock that contributed to the issue, but then why would all three die around the same time, and so close to hatch? Especially since they're two different breeds from different parent stock.
At this point, I'm convinced that it was either an infection issue or perhaps a power outage while I was out of the house - nothing else makes sense, unless there's something I don't know about / haven't mentioned.

 

[LaFleche]

I keep my incubator at optimal chicken-hatching parameters.

Than this can be ruled out.

I did move them on day 18 (typo, sorry). Perhaps I should have been moving them even earlier since these were bantam eggs? Some online sources say this is a good idea, but I've never tried it.

I had bantam eggs mostly hatching at day 19, even with a broody.

Third, there was no internal pip on all three eggs - I should have clarified this more. The membrane is even still intact on one of the eggs I autopsied. I'm not sure if you can see it in the picture or not - the intact chick wasn't even in position to pip yet. As such, I can't see how it could have been due to drowning in the egg, since the chicks weren't breathing air yet. The fluid I was referring to was still inside the membrane on all three chicks (some remnant of amniotic fluid perhaps?)
I would assume that the deaths happened shortly after I moved the chicks to the hatcher from my incubator, which is why i was questioning a bacterial infection or such.

I cannot zoom in on the pictures as my old and battered laptop is partially not working right anymore. So what you describe makes me think rather of some infection of the parent birds as the cause.

The possible mentioned power outage(s) would have effected the quail as well, or had they already hatched and you moved only the chicken eggs on day 18? If there were only the chicken eggs in the incubator after day 18, I would not rule out the power outage(s) just yet and you could just call you local provider to clarify this.
A single event of few hours (3-4) of power outage should only lead to delayed hatch, as the incubator will hold the warmth for some time still if kept closed.

At this point, I'm convinced that it was either an infection issue or perhaps a power outage while I was out of the house

Yes, these two possibilities make the most sense.

But for the above mentioned reasons I would rather lean to some underlying infection or other deficiency of the parent birds. Did you talk to the seller of the eggs already? You might just ask him how the hatching rates with eggs of theses parent birds have been lately.

 

[rmattise]

Than this can be ruled out.



I had bantam eggs mostly hatching at day 19, even with a broody.



I cannot zoom in on the pictures as my old and battered laptop is partially not working right anymore. So what you describe makes me think rather of some infection of the parent birds as the cause.

The possible mentioned power outage(s) would have effected the quail as well, or had they already hatched and you moved only the chicken eggs on day 18? If there were only the chicken eggs in the incubator after day 18, I would not rule out the power outage(s) just yet and you could just call you local provider to clarify this.
A single event of few hours (3-4) of power outage should only lead to delayed hatch, as the incubator will hold the warmth for some time still if kept closed.



Yes, these two possibilities make the most sense.

But for the above mentioned reasons I would rather lean to some underlying infection or other deficiency of the parent birds. Did you talk to the seller of the eggs already? You might just ask him how the hatching rates with eggs of theses parent birds have been lately.

That's an excellent idea - I think I'll do just that.

 

[slbenter]

At this point, I'm convinced that it was either an infection issue or perhaps a power outage while I was out of the house - nothing else makes sense, unless there's something I don't know about / haven't mentioned.

If you have any kind of older digital clock somewhere in your house, that would be a good indicator of whether or not your power went off and came back on while you're gone.
On those, when the power goes off, they blink to indicate a power outage.
All the clocks we used to have, like on the stove or oven, plus the alarm clocks in our bedroom....and on our VCR, all had to be reset after an outage. A PITB, but still a tell-tale sign.

 

[Kiki]

How many thermometers do you have in your incubator?

 

[Christine12]

That is so sad and so sorry for your loss. I joined forum today, I am from UK and I was very, very lucky to have all my 9 silkies hatch given it was my very first time and before this unique experience of incubating chicken eggs and now raising them, they are now 10 days old, I only ever thought of a chicken egg as something you eat. Anything could have gone wrong with mine and that is why I know I have been fortunate. Humidity a few days before they hatched was dreadful. It was falling rapidly when they were in lockdown and I was having hot showers frequently when I didn't need to just to keep humidity up. Then it would go down and I was in speed lightening mode lifting lid and throwing bits of warm soaked tissue. The machine is a jonoel12 and it's humidity control is not so good. 8 of them all hatched within a hour or so of each other. There was one egg left I noticed it had pipped and started to rip, I left alone. 24 hours later I quickly moved the 8 to their brooder. I pondered about the last remaining egg, I could hear it chirping but it was obviously having problems. I thought should I or shouldn't I help! I looked on u tube and found somebody demonstrating how to help. I said a little prayer and took the egg out and while dabbing with a q tip and warm water avoiding it's beak I started to slowly peel the shell off. Luckily I have long nails, did help. Eventually he/she fell into my palm with bottom part of egg attached. I put in incubator with egg attached and notice some blood and really expected it to die. I watched over it for hours, it had been trying for so long to get out it was exhausted. Eventually head popped up more regularly and attempts made to get up and 16 hours later he/she stood up and was walking around, lonely as others were in brooder. I put a teddy in and he/she cuddled up to it at times. 24 hours later I put with siblings. I named it George, as obviously don't know sex. What I know George is one little fighter. George looks as he/she is a blue silkie, started off buff colour. Now 10 days old he is none the worse for ordeal. He also had pasty butt for two days but thankfully that cleared after I cleaned him and it has not come back, he was the only one to get it so guess, don't know it was due to his terrible ordeal. I know some people think you shouldn't interfere but it was because I had to put water to bring up Humidity that probably caused the shrink wrap so it was the weather's fault, humidity and the machine although the machine did a marvelous job overall. Don't attach any blame to yourself because with my inexperience I have I could have easily experienced this as you did and it would have put me off forever. I cannot believe how these birds make me happy, it was only six weeks ago I decided I would like chickens, now I am hooked. Also wish done years ago, I am 60 now, retired from local government but if I could go back, I know what I would do. Also just wish I lived somewhere I could have more but my space is limited. I wish you well with successive hatches

 

[rmattise]

How many thermometers do you have in your incubator?

Three. Unless there was an equipment malfunction while I wasnt home, there's no chance it was the temperature in the hatcher or incubator.

If you have any kind of older digital clock somewhere in your house, that would be a good indicator of whether or not your power went off and came back on while you're gone.
On those, when the power goes off, they blink to indicate a power outage.
All the clocks we used to have, like on the stove or oven, plus the alarm clocks in our bedroom....and on our VCR, all had to be reset after an outage. A PITB, but still a tell-tale sign.

Good call with the clocks. The digital clock on my oven resets to 12:00 when the power goes out, and it's still showing the correct time. So I can safely rule out a power outage.

Now an equipment malfunction on the other hand, that's possible. I doubt it, because it's working just fine now, but it's theoretically possible that it experienced a temperature spike for unknown reasons while I was out of the house. My hatcher is one of those cheap foam 'bators, while my actual incubator is a reliable brinsea octagon eco.