Chick integration- not going as smoothly as last time around

[CabritaChicks]

I’m not exactly sure which forum this belongs in, but we’re having a tough integration issue. Or maybe I am just paranoid, but it was soooo much easier last time.

Our chicks were raised indoors, and at around 4 weeks old we started letting them spend a few hours a day outside in a fenced area to build their microbiome and get to know our two adult hens. They still came inside during the midday heat, at night, or during bad weather. Watching my husband herd the peeps into a tiny finch cage became hilarious—they loved being chauffeured around.

Everything was going smoothly: no aggression, supervised free-range, everyone happily eating from the same bowl. Perfect. Then at 5 weeks, while I was out for the day, my husband locked all of them in the coop together.

I came home to chicks huddled in a corner, absolutely terrified, some with bloody noses from pressing against the wire trying to escape.

So back to the house they went for “living-room rehab”—a massive dog kennel, calm environment, fresh greens, branches, and recovery time.

(Lucia- one of my parrots was super interested, and warmly accepted them as part of the flock. and the peeps adored her, they are pretty funny together).
After a couple days we transitioned them back to a “see but can’t touch” setup outside. They were wary of the adult hens at first, with the hens circling the fence a bit, but things eventually settled again. Both hens could be near them with no drama.

We began blocking off the coop so the peeps could spend a few hours inside alone at 6 weeks. By nearly 8 weeks old, it was time for everyone to try living together again—especially since my two hens had suddenly decided to start sleeping in a tree, and we needed everyone back on a routine.

Day 1: Unfortunately, one of my hens immediately went after Captain Morgan (our young cockerel) and was relentless enough that everyone got a time-out.

That night was stressful for me, but the peeps actually slept together in one of the nest boxes, and the two hens laid in their usual boxes the next morning.

Yesterday (day two), the peeps refused to come down into the run. I brought them food and water in the roosting area, then gave the hens a distraction buffet in the run.

The hens are annoyed about not being allowed to free-range and my white leghorn is announcing it every second-, and while I was planting a tree near the coop I suddenly heard a scream—Kraken. He/she was in the corner of the run (always brave), head in the dirt (literally), and Roo had pulled several feathers. I rushed in, called Kraken, and he/she came immediately. I held him while giving Roo a sharp beak-tap correction.

Day 3 (today): I went down, and of course my white leghorn is screaming bloody murder- even with all the treats. She just wants to be out free ranging. The peeps are alive, no injuries, but you can tell they slept in the nesting box and not the roosting bars.

Our last integration was effortless, but this time it’s much more complicated- the others were fully integrated at 5 weeks- so this time around- with a bigger coop, it is more complicated? What’s strange is that Roo (hen- white leghorn) only seems to target Kraken and Captain. Is she sensing they’re males?

Why is it so different this time?
Im not sure whether or not to bring the chicklets/peeps back up (the coop is far away on a moutain side- so it is a pain in the ass). Or leave them in the coop and tough it out for a another few days because there are no serious injuries.

I guess this is piggybacking on my other thread regarding if Kraken is a rooster. Im wondering if Roo knows?
Okay- now I am officially rambling.

-
Peeps: 8 weeks old
Captain is (we are 99% sure a rooster), wheaten olive egger
Kraken is a Black Americuana (sex is TBD)
Ouzo is a Opal legbar- female
Stoli is a Basque- female

They are being integrated with:
Roo- white leghorn/marans/something hen almost a year old
Gypsy- junglefowl almost a year old

---

 

[ksbkeys]

I’m not exactly sure which forum this belongs in, but we’re having a tough integration issue. Or maybe I am just paranoid, but it was soooo much easier last time.

View attachment 4255783
Our chicks were raised indoors, and at around 4 weeks old we started letting them spend a few hours a day outside in a fenced area to build their microbiome and get to know our two adult hens. They still came inside during the midday heat, at night, or during bad weather. Watching my husband herd the peeps into a tiny finch cage became hilarious—they loved being chauffeured around.

View attachment 4255784

Everything was going smoothly: no aggression, supervised free-range, everyone happily eating from the same bowl. Perfect. Then at 5 weeks, while I was out for the day, my husband locked all of them in the coop together.

I came home to chicks huddled in a corner, absolutely terrified, some with bloody noses from pressing against the wire trying to escape.

So back to the house they went for “living-room rehab”—a massive dog kennel, calm environment, fresh greens, branches, and recovery time.
View attachment 4255785

(Lucia- one of my parrots was super interested, and warmly accepted them as part of the flock. and the peeps adored her, they are pretty funny together).
After a couple days we transitioned them back to a “see but can’t touch” setup outside. They were wary of the adult hens at first, with the hens circling the fence a bit, but things eventually settled again. Both hens could be near them with no drama.

We began blocking off the coop so the peeps could spend a few hours inside alone at 6 weeks. By nearly 8 weeks old, it was time for everyone to try living together again—especially since my two hens had suddenly decided to start sleeping in a tree, and we needed everyone back on a routine.

Day 1: Unfortunately, one of my hens immediately went after Captain Morgan (our young cockerel) and was relentless enough that everyone got a time-out.

That night was stressful for me, but the peeps actually slept together in one of the nest boxes, and the two hens laid in their usual boxes the next morning.

Yesterday (day two), the peeps refused to come down into the run. I brought them food and water in the roosting area, then gave the hens a distraction buffet in the run.

The hens are annoyed about not being allowed to free-range and my white leghorn is announcing it every second-, and while I was planting a tree near the coop I suddenly heard a scream—Kraken. He/she was in the corner of the run (always brave), head in the dirt (literally), and Roo had pulled several feathers. I rushed in, called Kraken, and he/she came immediately. I held him while giving Roo a sharp beak-tap correction.

Day 3 (today): I went down, and of course my white leghorn is screaming bloody murder- even with all the treats. She just wants to be out free ranging. The peeps are alive, no injuries, but you can tell they slept in the nesting box and not the roosting bars.

Our last integration was effortless, but this time it’s much more complicated- the others were fully integrated at 5 weeks- so this time around- with a bigger coop, it is more complicated? What’s strange is that Roo (hen- white leghorn) only seems to target Kraken and Captain. Is she sensing they’re males?

Why is it so different this time?
Im not sure whether or not to bring the chicklets/peeps back up (the coop is far away on a moutain side- so it is a pain in the ass). Or leave them in the coop and tough it out for a another few days because there are no serious injuries.

I guess this is piggybacking on my other thread regarding if Kraken is a rooster. Im wondering if Roo knows?
Okay- now I am officially rambling.

-
Peeps: 8 weeks old
Captain is (we are 99% sure a rooster), wheaten olive egger
Kraken is a Black Americuana (sex is TBD)
Ouzo is a Opal legbar- female
Stoli is a Basque- female

They are being integrated with:
Roo- white leghorn/marans/something hen almost a year old
Gypsy- junglefowl almost a year old

---

I don't know if I am overly cautious but I have always waited until my newbies are about 12 weeks before leaving them in the coop overnight. I free range them together or even allow some pen time together at about 10 weeks. When I finally do have them in the coop overnight I always put them in after dark. It is usually awhile before they are ever allowed to join the older chickens on the roost bar. It is not unusual for them to huddle together in a corner or nest box. Eventually things calm down.

 

[DobieLover]

Is she sensing they’re males?

Chickens don't have to sense the gender of other chickens. They know.

Why is it so different this time?

You have different birds involved in the integration.

I know you stated that your coop is larger but could you still please post pictures of it?

The personality of the birds involved is always why recommendations are made for minimum spacing requirements. Some birds don't need that much space. But you just never know when you're going to have a flock that does. It sounds like you do. The coop should offer 3.5 to 4 sq ft of space per bird and that does not include the nest boxes. It should also offer approximately 1 linear foot of roost and as close to 1 sq ft of permanently open ventilation per bird.

Youngsters will take more time to roost themselves at night, especially when they're getting harassed by a senior flock member as yours are. I have a flock of birds at the moment that all get along just fine... except at roost time. Chickens are nastiest to each other at roost time. I have to pull about eight youngsters out of the nest boxes and physically roost them every night. I will likely need to do that until the pullets start to lay.

The run should offer an additional 12-15 sq ft per bird and have dry organic material for scratching around in and lots of branches, stumps, old wood chairs or stools, pallets, or whatever for them to jump up on and preen themselves and just hang out. If the run is just one big space with food and water in it, it doesn't offer much else to do but harass the newcomers.

You also want to have multiple feed stations. I solve that problem by placing plate sized flat stones all around the run and putting small piles of food on them. That way the youngsters can always find a place to get something to eat until they are fully integrated.

It also sounds like you need to rehome one of those cockerels as you will likely have an issue with overbreeding and possible fighting amongst the boys having two males in with such a small flock.

 

[CabritaChicks]

Chickens don't have to sense the gender of other chickens. They know.

You have different birds involved in the integration.

I know you stated that your coop is larger but could you still please post pictures of it?

The personality of the birds involved is always why recommendations are made for minimum spacing requirements. Some birds don't need that much space. But you just never know when you're going to have a flock that does. It sounds like you do. The coop should offer 3.5 to 4 sq ft of space per bird and that does not include the nest boxes. It should also offer approximately 1 linear foot of roost and as close to 1 sq ft of permanently open ventilation per bird.

Youngsters will take more time to roost themselves at night, especially when they're getting harassed by a senior flock member as yours are. I have a flock of birds at the moment that all get along just fine... except at roost time. Chickens are nastiest to each other at roost time. I have to pull about eight youngsters out of the nest boxes and physically roost them every night. I will likely need to do that until the pullets start to lay.

The run should offer an additional 12-15 sq ft per bird and have dry organic material for scratching around in and lots of branches, stumps, old wood chairs or stools, pallets, or whatever for them to jump up on and preen themselves and just hang out. If the run is just one big space with food and water in it, it doesn't offer much else to do but harass the newcomers.

You also want to have multiple feed stations. I solve that problem by placing plate sized flat stones all around the run and putting small piles of food on them. That way the youngsters can always find a place to get something to eat until they are fully integrated.

It also sounds like you need to rehome one of those cockerels as you will likely have an issue with overbreeding and possible fighting amongst the boys having two males in with such a small flock.

Thanks for the response:

We free-range, so this whole situation is really just part of the initial integration period. The coop (you can see it in the “my coop” link under my profile) isn’t their main living space—we don’t have the predator issues that many people deal with, so all six birds mostly use it just for sleeping.

Ideally they follow suit with every other chicken: During the day they free-range with access to two auxiliary areas, plus several feeding stations scattered throughout a few acres of bush and jungle.

Roosting itself hasn’t been a problem at all. The conflict seems to come during daytime exploration within the coop/run, especially since I use pretty intensive enrichment—whole edible branches, curated kitchen scraps (fresh veggies and some fruit in two bowls mixed with soaked pellets), dry pellets in another feeder, so three feeding stations with two waterers. The ground is naturally rich in grit since we live on the sea (victory soil, on the coral reef, on the beach).

What’s complicated is figuring out Kraken. I ordered a female from Meyer, but Kraken is incredibly sweet, outgoing, and the most affectionate cuddler—yet the constant chest-bumping with the actual cockerel (same age) has me wondering if Kraken might secretly be a little roo after all.

Permitting for coop modification is about 6 months- so I cant modify the coop, and it is expensive (if I was to entend it- it also would not be seaside proof as when we looked into it- just another 5 ft is 3 grand+ and severely labor intensive. It has worked in the past for 7 birds... just seems like Roo (which is a hen- leghorn mix) is a roadblock into the integration process of these new chicks.

Someone recommended putting her in a kennel outside the coop- so she realizes that the chicks are part of the flock. I think she is dominant over the coop- more than disliking the chicks.

Edit: Typos are a real struggle over here. Sorry

 

[CabritaChicks]

I don't know if I am overly cautious but I have always waited until my newbies are about 12 weeks before leaving them in the coop overnight. I free range them together or even allow some pen time together at about 10 weeks. When I finally do have them in the coop overnight I always put them in after dark. It is usually awhile before they are ever allowed to join the older chickens on the roost bar. It is not unusual for them to huddle together in a corner or nest box. Eventually things calm down.

This is helpful. I wanted to wait a bit longer- but it became a marriage/household issue. We dont live in a region where there are basements- or garages. But at the same time- outside when they are young, is far too hot without creating another specialized area (permits are required and not cheap).

So to the laundry room they went (like last time). The level of dust and distraction/cleaning started to take a toll after 5 weeks old and 4 chickens. Hubby started having min-fits.

He spent a great deal of time outside with them when they were 'look but dont touch' and said 'they are getting along great! put them in the coop for christ sake!

 

[CabritaChicks]

I think I also made the mistake on timing- as hubby and I have been outside the last two days within sight/hearing- which really irritates our hens (as they want out to free range) and the chicklets want to be back on the sofa with me.

*I did spoil these quite a bit more than the other two sets of chicks/eggs from awhile back.

 

[RubelliteRose]

I am so sorry your integration isn't going well. Most of our integrations have gone quickly and smoothly, but we also had a rough one. We had to keep that batch of chicks in a look but don't touch set up for at least 3 weeks - separate fenced in area during the day, sleeping in a large dog crate in the coop at night. We waited to do full integration until Nutmeg, hen, stopped trying to attack the chicks through the fence. We also had a boy in that group, but I can't say if that was the cause of the attacks or not. Nutmeg stopped trying to kill the chicks, but she never did like any of them even after they matured. Maybe Roo just needs more time than normal to adjust to the chicks.
Side note- I have had dominant female chicks chest bump with their brothers so hopefully Kraken is a girl

 

[DobieLover]

so all six birds mostly use it just for sleeping.

The actual coop, yes but roost time as the birds get older, in my opinion, is one of the nastiest times for the chickens to come together. Especially when you have newcomers and a senior hen that doesn't want them around.

daytime exploration within the coop/run

Leaving all of the birds in a space that small when you have a hen that doesn't want the youngsters around is going to be problematic. It's extremely small. If you cannot expand their space, you need to reduce their numbers. I would go ahead and immediately rehome the two cockerels.