chick speculation

[KaziCritter]

short info for those that dont want to read the whole post:
have fun trying to figure out the genetics these 3 chicks might have. mother is a hatchery white rock, father is a silver laced wyandotte, second possible father i dont know the breed of.

full story:
just had a trio of chicks hatch this morning (first chicks ive hatched, did ducklings last year but all by chickens were bought from feed stores or rehomed to me). didnt know what to expect as far as looks go but didnt really expect what i got. mother is a hatchery bred white rock from the local tsc about 2 years ago, she went broody and stayed on her eggs until about lunch time yesterday. there were 4 fertile eggs and one went missing the day before (i think it hatched and when she got up the rest of the flock decided it was breakfast). expected to have a few days to put her and the eggs someplace quiet before they started hatching. ended up sticking the 3 remaining eggs in the incubator to save them and they hatched about 2-3 days early.

the dad of 2 of the chicks is easy to tell, they have rose combs and i only have 3 birds with rose combs (2 are female), this rooster was a rehomed one and i dont know his origins. the 3rd chick looked to have a rose but now that its dried off it looks like a single comb that was flattened to the side, either that or a smooth rose with prongs off only one side. its color also differs from the other 2 a little, it has some brown on its head. its father could be my current rooster or the one that died about 2 weeks before the hen went broody, though that rooster was not very interested in my hens. the other rooster was bought full grown from a local feed store so no clue on where he is from.

they are lively and healthy chicks so their genetics arent super important but if anyone feels like trying to help me figure out what they might be for fun then i can add photos as they grow. could be good practice for anyone wanting to identify what their birds or chicks have or carry. figure it could be a bit more interesting since one of the parents is white instead of being able to tell at a glance what both parents might have.

i can add specific photos or descriptions of the 2 adults or the chicks if needed. and these are day old chicks. at the time of posting chick 1 is 17 hours old, chick 2 is about 9 1/2 hours old, and chick 3 is about 5 hours old. all hatched on estimated day 19 (did have temps over 100 for a few days and upper 90s for about a week so im guessing that sped up development).

i dont know how well the camera caught the color but chicks 1 and 3 have darkish legs (chick 1 has light feet while 3 has dark) and chick 2 has very pink legs and feet.

mom - white rock:

charm (most likely dad) - silver laced wyandotte (wing is clipped on this side, hes a bit shy so tricky to get even this photo):

monster (possible dad) - dont know the breed but he was very big and gentle, if anyone can identify what he was id appreciate it, then i might be able to get a replacement in the future (was a real nice boy):

chick 1:

chick 2:

chick 3 (borwnish goldish patch on top of head, markings in white on back):

back view of chicks (top is chick 1, middle is 2, bottom is 3):

and i hope this is the right forum for this, it did say genetics which is what this is about even though these chicks are just a mix and definitely not show birds.

 

[Spiderduck]

Did you use all of mums eggs to put under her and those chicks are from her eggs?

If its different eggs then the chicks might resemble their mum. Which might explain why they are all black coloured. If you used same mums eggs, dad is likley to be the darkest one.

But i think youll just have to wait until they are older. Have fun with you new chicks they look cute and your roos are cool!

 

[KaziCritter]

my flock is very mixed (mostly one of this and one of that) so i can tell who laid which egg for the most part. the entire next had 10 eggs in it when she went broody, 8 were hers, 1 was from my barred rock (darker and smaller), and 1 was white. only 4 of the eggs from my white rock turned out to be fertile. I even checked them against photos i took back when figuring out which hen gave which eggs (mostly when i caught them in a nest box) so they are absolutely hers.

monster wasnt much for the hens, he was more of a loner only joining them to eat or sleep (and he didnt perch with them and slept on the floor). only had about 5 fertile eggs all year with him before he died. charm instantly took to the girls. and since he is the only rooster i have ever had with a rose comb (and no roosters have visited, next chicken keeper is at least a neighborhood away and not allowed them) he has to be the father of 1 and 2, unless i got 2 random mutations of the same kind. isnt rose dominant over single?

for all the chicks being black i read that white rocks often are recessive white on a black based bird. she is hatchery stock so it would make sense for them to take shortcuts but if thats what she is then it would explain that bit. whats most puzzling is how i got 2 mostly solid chicks and one thats got the wild like markings all in silvery yellow but also has brown on its head. wouldnt it be silver that changes the golden tones on the wild type coloration to silver/white and wouldnt that also stop the brown from showing? or is my mind trying to make connections that arent there? either way i did go through chick identification photos (and google images) to see if anything was anywhere close and didnt see any chicks with those markings that wasnt brown and god with black only in outlining.

and i know i wont be able to tell just what they will look like until they are older but i thought it might be fun and possibly good practice starting with them this young. identifying different phenotypes from the start, at least it could help anyone who wants to be able to try figuring out what their mystery chick might have. just about all the stuff ive found online is for adult birds with only bare mentions if anything about chicks and when chicks are mentioned there is no explanation why its such and such and cant be something else. im new to chicken genetics, but i did some home study a while back on rat genetics so know some basics even if im not great with terminology.

 

[3riverschick]

Hi,
I think Monster is a black copper Marans. which would explain a lot of black chicks .
I think Chick One may be sired by Monster. the other two could not have been sired by Monster. they would have have to be sired by the Wyandotte.. The colors are all wrong for them to be sired by Monster.
Best ,
Karen

 

[KaziCritter]

there is no way for monster to have been the father of chick 1 or 2. he had a single comb and both those chicks have rose combs. only chick 3 has a single comb.

the chicks have started feathering, chick 1 is quite a ways behind the others (2 & 3 are feathering faster then any chicks ive had before, been comparing to the regular photos i have of some birds of mine). they are now 2 weeks old.

chick 1: the fer feathers are nearly all black with hints of white starting on the wings, shoulders, and tail. beak has darkened. legs are still greenish but a bit lighter.

chick 2: much more feathered then 1. as can be seen, quite a bit of white in the shoulders with what looks like it might be patterning on the wings. feathers are also starting on the sides of the chest and thighs. beak has darkened and legs are now a golden orangish color.

chick 3: as or more feathered then chick 2. much less white with more distinct patterning. beak is darker and legs while still green are lighter then at hatch. comb is straightening up, at hatch it was folded over

did a bit of reading on genetics for chicken coloration, still just starting with it but i think i have some of the basics down. pretty sure the mom has silver since she has never yellowed (not from sun or feed with marigold in it, and from what i found thats an indicator of birds being silver even if they are entirely white) and since all 3 are black and white for feather color (in addition to rose combs) im fairly certain that charm is the father of all 3. monster would have given gold daughters and pale gold sons. still a bit unsure on the other genetics they have, any suggestions or knowledgeable guesses?

hoping to use this trio and chicks ill be hatching in about 18 days as practice and learning so i can identify and select for good genetics (and understand how both good and bad are passed on) instead of what i might think looks nice or neat. im going to be working with a few split flocks next year (copper marans, wyandottes, legbars, and my current random mix of hens) so kinda feel like i need to get this down to keep from butchering whatever good genetics i might have.