Chick with tear under vent- **Update**

[ChooksChick]

I'm concerned about Tardy, the last BCM of 4 that survived from a 28 egg incubation. These are a friend's and had to be moved here on day 18- long story.

After 29 hours, from pip to hatch, this baby seemed okay initially. She had poo in the shell and a wad of urates/etc. on her vent at hatch. This came off, but seeping urates appear over time. When gently rinsed off, it's a very raw diaper-rash-like vent area.

This baby had a very large yolk bloat- and a red, swollen vent- right out of the egg.

It also either is rumpless, or it has so much yolk it appears as though there is no tail bone! I'm definitely seeing it do the back-up-wanna-poo dance, but nothing is exiting. It may be too early for it to have poo, but it also seems like it's got some mix-up or something, vent-wise. It doesn't have prolapse to speak of, nor is this anything like pasty-butt, just to clarify. Could there be a blockage?

Has anyone experienced this? Bummage.

 

[ChooksChick]

this morning, she has a teeny bit of urates again, but hasn't pooped- I can tell because I have her in with the RIR and BR chicks that hatched all last evening, and no one pooped. In the BCM brooder, the others have pooped a lot.

It's awful, because I am definitely thinking this baby is distressed and needs to go, but can't.

Has no one ever experienced this?

 

[ChooksChick]

It appears that her vent hasn't been the exit site for the urates that she's passing- it seems that if you consider the pulsing little vent as a mouth, the seeping urates come from a raw spot right under the lower 'lip.'

It's not quite right.

The lack of a tail makes me wonder if this perfect little baby was perhaps not cooked quite right.

The yolk doesn't appear to be lessening as it seems it has in the others.

Help?

 

[insiderart]

Sorry I don't know what you are seeing. Is it the umbilicus? I would put neosporin on it, and vaseline on the vent. Give it a few drops of sugar water mixed with plain yogurt to keep it hydrated and see if it can pull out of it.

Any chance for a pic?

 

[threehorses]

I'm so sorry this didn't get seen earlier!

So you see a vent, right? And you're saying that there appears to be urates seeping from under? Are any droppings at all coming from the vent? Can you check the vent to see if there's actually an opening there? I suspect that there isn't - and that there might be a perforationn under and that's where the droppings are coming from. I had to wonder - you said droppings IN the shell - very odd. Was there any indication at all that droppings ever came from the vent? Could the redness just have been from sitting in the droppings whil ein the egg?

Does the chick continue to feel bloated to you? Could that be droppings inside? Can you clean that sore and see if it opens to the cloaca?

So I wonder if this isn't omphalitis, infected naval disease. Is it possible that the hole by the vent is a misplaced hole at which the chick was supposed to seal up when the yolk went in?

Poor little guy.

What concerns me most is that droppings aren't passing. They're going somewhere.

Another option - the first dropping, he's constipated and the droppings are no longer passing. Again I'd look into maybe using a little olive oil and seeing if you can't get the normal vent opening to act like a normal vent opening. Defininitely clean the little vent sore.

/hugs What a mess.

The change in moving during incubation might have had something to do with it. Though apparently more often left-over bacteria in the incubator or on the eggs is the cause. but this is a different case as there was a move-mid hatch.

Definitely I would thoroughly disinfect the incubator before hatching another batch in there. Tektrol is wonderful for that, but you have to really air out the bator after and never use near birds or in an enclosed space as it's strong. There are other options, perhaps Virkon-S, that might be more safe.

 

[insiderart]

Thank goodness someone with an answer. *sits back and hold's chook's hand*

 

[ChooksChick]

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Yes, that's exactly what it looks like.
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I tried, but even just pushing/probing ever so slightly with a wet q-tip made a small (pin-tip sized) raw spot where the opening ought to be- it looks like a drawstring bag drawn tight, not showing an opening during the pulse, like the normal babies' vents do. No, there are no droppings or anything passing this drawn pucker.
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No droppings are getting through- it's only urates. Just wet, white filmy urates.
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Even this substance in the shell had nearly zero greencolor to it, but there was a tad- there is NO green in any of the seepage from her now.
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No indication anything has passed through the vent- the redness first seemed like diaper rash to me, then I saw the seepage occurring, it's really hard to watch. Poor, poor baby!! I desperately want to poke ti make the vent work...as if that was ever going to happen. I'm so saddened.

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I don't actually see a proper opening in the sore...it's almost as if it has tiny perforations.

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I don't think it's possible- the umbilicus is way farther down and looks fairly normal...I say fairly...I'll get a pic up.

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Yes, I've been cleaning it- running water over it and patting gently...it's brutal. I don't know how much should be going on dropping-wise, but I think everyone else has started pooping by now...he's been out about a day and a half...all this after an interminably long hatch...poor thing.


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I'm soaking it in bleach-water now, but there's not a thing wrong with any of the others that got to the 18th day. I'm not going to need the hatcher for another 2 weeks, so I'm nuking it, meantime.

I'll clean again and get pics up. Finally got my kids to find the camera!

 

[insiderart]

Definitely put either vaseline or triple antibiotic on the raw area. Poor little guy.

 

[ChooksChick]

Well, I've got pics...

After another cleansing, it looks more and more like it's a thin area of skin tearing away to allow for prolapse...and the vent isn't connected to it.

I'll get the pics up in a second- have to go isolate so I don't freak with every sound that the other 11 are hurting him/her...

 

[threehorses]

Ohhh yeah, that's the next step isn't it? The pecking.

Geez.

Yeah it sounds like there's no vent opening where normally there should be one. Something has happened to where a break is allowing stuff through. I would think if the perforation wasn't opening into the cloaca, then he'd be dead by now from peritonitis if the urates were backing into the body. I suspect that the feces are too thick to seep through and are still there. The urates can as can urine.

Is there any chance of taking the chick to the vet to have them open the vent opening? I suspect there's a thin membrane over the vent opening and that the pressure on the thin skin has allowed a second place to open instead. It's possible that the vent could be surgically perforated by sterilizing it and perforating the membrane exactly in the center of the vent. I'd rather see a vet do something like that of course. I just can't see how the chick will make it longer with feces backing into his system - surely peritonitis will set in soon, and he's too small and delicate to be treated for something like that. I would think he would have a better chance with his vent being cleared of its closure so that droppings will pass. I'm afraid if they back up further they'll get into his abdominal cavity, and hope that's not what we're already seeing with the second (only) opening.

Do you have someone who could do something like that? Then perhaps the second opening will close as the pressure is off of it from the vvent being opened?