Chicken Breeds vs Chicken Types.

[Chris09]

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So that you know, the Buckeye isnt the only American class breed that has Game ancestors.
The R.I. Red has Malay in its background and as you know a game breed.
The American Dominiques has Game fowl in there background.
Also the Plymouth Rock has some Game Fowl in there background.
As for them being, "most active breed of the American class" I think some breeders of the American Dominiques (and other American class breeds) would have to disagree.

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The Darker Red color for the most part has always been there do to the Red Malay that Captain Richard Wheatland imported back in 1846 and the Rose Comb Red Javas as in the case of the Rose Comb Rhode Island Red all it took was some selective breeding. There has never been any written information of the Buckeye ever being used in the R.I. Red and there is a lot of old books and information on the R.I. Red out there.

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From what I have read that is do to the Malay and Brahma blood added.

Chris

 

[TimG]

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You've got to define "breed" before that can be answered. I contend that "breed" can be defined differently by different bodies so that the question has no single right answer.

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I got it from dictonary.com

I think the relevant definition from dictionary.com is: "a relatively homogenous group of animals within a species, developed and maintained by humans."

The example given for your definition (lineage; stock; strain) is "She comes from a fine breed of people" which is clearly not referring to purebred livestock.

 

[buffalogal]

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I think of it as species are naturally occurring (God made), breeds are man made. Some organizations are very picky about what they will call a "breed" and whether they will allow crossbreeding like the American Kennel Club and the Jockey Club , some, like the American Dairy Goat Association, and the Arabian Horse Association,are not.
I just read on the Heritage Large Fowl thread where heritagehabitatfarms pointed out: "Remember the APA says that to be a breed a given flock of birds only has to breed true 50% of the time for 3 generations...".

 

[Celtic Hill]

Then why are we calling it a breed? As far as im concerned my Friend's Exchequer Leghorns are nothing more then a cross because her line (before she got them) were crossed with Ancona chickens to improve color. Granted it was for improvement, but now it's only 75% Leghorn, but yet it's still considered a leghorn because it LOOKs like a Leghorn. I guess I do not understand why we call breeds a breed when there is no documentation on it actually being that specific breed or having a specific percent of that blood. I mean, its not something I really care about, I have always wondered.

 

[buffalogal]

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In the same way, breeding an Ancona to a Leghorn doesn't make an Ancona, and the rose combed offspring of a Dominique and Barred Rock cross is not a Dominique even if the cross was initially done with good intentions to increase numbers of a rare breed. It doesn't matter if the comb, color and markings are correct, the size and body shape will not be. How many generations breeding back to pure stock would it take? That would depend on how heavily you culled each generation against the SoP, but I would think a minimum of three generations.

As an example, with registered dairy goats, you can record a crossbreed as "experimental". If you use registered males of only one of those breeds on the female offspring, in 3 generations, the female offspring would be considered 'American' (a version of a breed, and males take four generations) The only breed that can be bred up to purebred status from experimental is the Lamancaha, and it takes six generations, and each generation must meet the breed standard.

Of course, no one records poultry, so it's all about whether it *looks* like XYZ breed according to the SoP.

 

[Celtic Hill]

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In the same way, breeding an Ancona to a Leghorn doesn't make an Ancona, and the rose combed offspring of a Dominique and Barred Rock cross is not a Dominique even if the cross was initially done with good intentions to increase numbers of a rare breed. It doesn't matter if the comb, color and markings are correct, the size and body shape will not be. How many generations breeding back to pure stock would it take? That would depend on how heavily you culled each generation against the SoP, but I would think a minimum of three generations.

As an example, with registered dairy goats, you can record a crossbreed as "experimental". If you use registered males of only one of those breeds on the female offspring, in 3 generations, the female offspring would be considered 'American' (a version of a breed, and males take four generations) The only breed that can be bred up to purebred status from experimental is the Lamancaha, and it takes six generations, and each generation must meet the breed standard.

Of course, no one records poultry, so it's all about whether it *looks* like XYZ breed according to the SoP.

But if they were trying to bring the numbers up on that breed and used a BR, then the breeder would breed towards the Standard for Dominique, but it still would have BR in it, there for not 100% Dominque.

One of the top breeders of long tails said on another forum.

There are NO pure poultry....Its all type...If it breeds true then it can and is called that breed. Take a look at the onagadori. There not a pure bird either. It is all in the type. How do you think all these diff breeds get started? It's all type.​

 

[TimG]

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You're still hung up on the "blood" definition of breed. It simply isn't that way with the APA and chickens.

By the way, I agree that breeds in the poultry world are artificially determined and somewhat arbitrary.