@savilcr @RaZ I did request such a forum (sub-forum). https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=487499 RaZ, I also posted a thread asking if there were Master Gardeners in this forum. I am very interested in having conversation with people who keep chickens and garden (masterfully) MUCH more than I am interested in having conversations with people who are primarily gardeners that incidentally keep a bird or two or three. I am interested in more sophistication with the gardening with birds from the bird keepers perspective. I grew up in a Master Gardener's yard, and the nursery that he and a horticulturist ran from our property. We always kept birds. The emphasis was on gardening. I have a stronger emphasis on keeping birds, and I would like to be as productive with them as possible gardening-wise. I hope that makes sense. I was somewhat rebuffed and told to go to the gardening site, but I don't want to go there, I want to be here discussing gardening from this perspective. Maybe the line sounds fine, but it is approach and perspective that make a difference, and thus I think can bring forth new ideas or re-fine old ones. Someone, please tell me you understand the distinction and difference I am trying to clarify in spite of my bumbled efforts.