Chicken-safe rat poison sought

[Keeter]

Quote:
I took the statement "low risk of secondary poisoning" to mean that if the rats ate the poison, and then the chicken ate the rates, that the chickens would be at low risk. I don't believe the vet indicated the poison would not hurt the chickens if eaten directly.

 

[Katy]

Quote:
I took the statement "low risk of secondary poisoning" to mean that if the rats ate the poison, and then the chicken ate the rates, that the chickens would be at low risk. I don't believe the vet indicated the poison would not hurt the chickens if eaten directly.

That is exactly right.

 

[Chicken.Lytle]

Quote:
While this is logically true it is also practically not true. The reason is dosage. Even water in sufficient quantity is fatal.

The reason flea poison, rat poison, or human medicine work is that they are scaled to the body weight of the target creature. A small amount of benadryl will stop your sniffles. A larger amount will make you sleepy. A lot more will make you dead.

A better way to look at the problem is to ask how many poisoned rats would the chickens have to eat to have a serious negative impact on their health. If that number is greater than a small fraction of a poisoned rat, then there is a basis for considering the poison "safe" for use around chickens. Obviously the best solution is for the chickens to eat no dead rats, but that is a sensible goal, not a useful risk analysis.

By the way, there is another category of falseness to the original statement. Some critters can metabolize toxins that others cannot tolerate. Think about this puzzle: how to arrow poison frogs mate? Hint: it requires contact.

 

[rhiannon]

Quote:
I am comfortable with my decision to use the bait as I have.

Would I feed it directly to my cats or dogs? Heavens no but used as it's intended to be used I have found it to be a safe way to kill off the rat population.

I tried all the "safe" methods that were suggested because I was afraid of poisoning my barn cats and outside dogs. NONE of them worked at all or very little. After much research and by talking to several vets about using "Just One Bite".....not just local vets either but vets at the state level and toxicology dept heads.....I bought locking bait boxes and put the bait out. You can say what you want about the vets I talked to, but I'm sorry I trust what they have to say much more than your opinion or online research. Did any say it was 100% safe, no they did not, but they all said that used as directed the risk to any of my barn cats or dogs was minimal.

I disagree with your statement that most of the rats will crawl away from their tunnels to die.....I have not found that to be true. I found some in the pens, but most died in their tunnels and for a time during the second and third weeks of treatment the odor of death coming from under my coops in their tunnels was not pleasant.

I've had chickens for 50+ years and never had a problem with rats until the last 18 months or so. Once they get a foothold they are next to impossible to get rid of without resorting to poison. Believe it or not I was once just as adament about not using poison as you. Once I actually did the research and talked to people who know what they're talking about I changed my mind.

Do what you wish, and claim what you will, but I happen to know for a fact that you and your vets are wrong. Period.
I, too, can back up everything I say with the support of the majority of veterinarians, regarding both the action of poison and rodent behavior---and frankly, common sense. If people choose to use poison, that is their prerogtive, but I WILL NOT report inaccurate, patently FALSE information that any poison is safe from HIGH risk (and not minimal risk, as you claim) of secondary poisoning. It very simply and most definitely is NOT.

Wow, why the verbal abuse? I don't think anyone said poisons were completely safe, but the usage of them may out weigh the potential problems associated with a rat infestation. No where did I see where Katy said it was completely without risk, looks like you just like to argue.
I am a vet and if I had a severe rat infestation, I would definitely use poison to control or eliminate the problem. Large populations of rats can and will cause more problems, in terms of disease and parasites for your other animals then secondary poisoning. This is not to say that secondary poisoning can not happen, it certainly can, but the risk may out way doing nothing at all.

 

[Smangerer]

Has anyone heard of or tried the Electric rat trap? I have The Victor electronic trap and it works great. You bait it with peanut butter and its powered by 4 c batteries which they claim will kill 50 rats. I just put it out and have been playing with placement and I accidently killed a large squirrel with it when I turned it on too early before dark and on top of the run. I'm keeping it inside the run now and out of reach of the chickens.

 

[AustinRhea]

Here's some info on bromadiolone, which is supposed to be low risk to any chicken, dog, etc. that might eat a dead rat:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=606272#p606272

I've used it in my coop without harm to the chickens. I used Just One Bite in the past, and will be using some of the Tomcat Hawk as soon as it gets here.

No one should state outright that it will never harm a chicken, IMO, but from what I've read and my own experience, I'm more worried about what rats and mice carry than I am about using this particular poison. When I used it before, I had fairly good sized rat holes in the coop floor, and I stuck part of a stick down the hole then covered the hole with a concrete block. I'll have a bait station this time, which I'll secure better than just snapping it shut as it's designed to do, probably with duct tape.

Rat traps of various sorts are great -- if the rat isn't "trap smart." I never had much luck with that.

First, I have not read through all the replies. I was told that the Motomco Rampage Rat Bait, I believe from the same company that makes Tomcat Hawk, is the "safest" rat poison for use on farms, since it has such an extremely low secondary exposure. I haven't tied any yet as it isn't available in stores around here and it is expensive online.

Good luck. I have mice in my hen house and rats under my house, so I feel your pain.

 

[AustinRhea]

Has anyone heard of or tried the Electric rat trap? I have The Victor electronic trap and it works great. You bait it with peanut butter and its powered by 4 c batteries which they claim will kill 50 rats. I just put it out and have been playing with placement and I accidently killed a large squirrel with it when I turned it on too early before dark and on top of the run. I'm keeping it inside the run now and out of reach of the chickens.

I saw one of those at Tractor Supply and was curious how well it would work. I was also scared my chickens would get in it by accident and get zapped.

 

[Smangerer]

They work great. I got a rat last night. I put it about 3 feet off the ground on a roosting branch so the birds are less likely to get to it. Also, I don't think they could stick there heads all the way back in there and they would have to touch both the bottom and back at the same time.

 

[Garfield1234]

Yes there is. Most poisons contain 0.05gms/kg of some sort of highly powerful anti-coagulant. These products were registered many decades ago with the sole purpose of killing rats, the environment was not considered at all. But 7 years ago a guy by the name of Brett Restall wondered How low can we go? with regard to the actual amount of poison needed to kill a rat. After two years he discovered that 99% of all rat products are 5 times more toxic than required, that s why secondary poisoning is inevitable. If the rat eats more than is required to kill it, it becomes a living poison vessel. What Brett discovered is a better way, something he calls LCP or Low Cumulative Poisoning. The rat or mouse eats the product until the poison accumulates in its system eventually killing it without over poisoning it s whole body. Brett also discovered that by using this method the rats incorporate the feed into their family community which eventually results in the elimination of the nest as well. Generally the rats all die at home and are not found around the infested area. "Where did they go?" His product is called Di-Rat-Blue and can be obtained at [email protected].

 

[pamonarch]

will peppermint oil mixed with DE or just on cotton balls bother the chickens?