Chickens for 10-20 years or more? Pull up a rockin' chair and lay some wisdom on us!

[smyers32]

I guess I'm a little confused then...if DE can slice up a hard bodied insect so badly that it then dessicates it or allows bacteria to kill the insect, how do the soft bodied insects fair? And when it is fed to livestock to "slice up" intestinal worms and kill them...how does it then not slice and harm any other worm?

Also...part of the action of DE is when it is being groomed off of the legs and bodies of bugs, their ingesting it causes it to cut up their intestines..again resulting in killing them. So beneficial bugs and worms just are automatically immune to all these killing qualities of the DE? If DE can kill bad nematodes in the soil, how can it not kill the beneficial and predatory nematodes as well?

If I could see some documentation on how it is that selective, I might believe that it won't have any effect on beneficial nematodes in the culture of the DL in the coop. Using DE to dessicate and dry up litter will also, I'm thinking, dessicate and dry up any beneficial yeasts, bacteria or nematodes in that same litter from what I understand about their growth and development.

I have read several conflicting reports about the mechanisms of DE. The one I had decided on (though I admit I can't remember now why I gave that one credit over the others) is that the DE sticks to the waxy coating of hard-bodied insects and robs them of that protection allowing their fluids to escape and thus dehydrating them.
Hmmm, it made a lot more sense when I read it. I haven't relayed it very well, I'm afraid. Still, I'm not sure how this makes it deadly to bad bugs and safe for good bugs. I always understood that it kills tiny creepy crawlies. period. No consideration for beneficial vs. parasitic. I have been wrong before.

 

[chickachee]

So far what has worked for me on keeping my chickens critter-free is what I've mostly learned right here in this thread from many of the OTs and just a little of my own common sense.

The coop gets 'cleaned' once a month. That's cleaning that's good for the chicken house, not mine!

I take a bucket of HOT soapy water down to the coop and all roosts, working surfaces and windows get wiped down with it. Then the roosts get painted real good with BMO (Was that Fred or AL that taught me that? I think it was one of them!). I wash the windows because clean windows let in much more sunlight, and a lot of creepy-crawly things thrive in the dark.

Maven,

Was is BMO??

Thanks,
Sheila

 

[Beekissed]

Hope to see you in Shawnee next weekend.

Questions:
1) MG - I know it runs its course in 2 - 3 weeks and that surviving birds will be carriers. Do you automatically cull birds with the first symptoms or what treatments do you utilize?
I'm losing birds now to what I think is MG (watery eyes, mucus that crusts the nostrils, sneezing and some wheezing) Birds affected are in quarantine and using Vet RX in the water and Tylan 50 injections. They have ACV water and pumpkin in their pens. I've culled those with matted eyes. Totl loss so far is 15 out of 100 bird flock in past three days. Also set up a sparrow trap in the run as the sparrows are feasting on the hanging feeders. Birds normally freerange 8 - 10 hours a day.

2) When not using a broody, do you prefer dry hatch incubation or do you stick with the recommended humidity in the incubator?
I've tried both methods with varying levels of success/failure. Would like to know your thoughts.

1. I've never had to cull a chicken for any illness or disease, believe it or not. I guess the yearly cull takes care of any birds that would be the most likely to have a weak immune system and contract contagion. When I read about how many folks on this forum have some kind of contagious disease in their flocks, the only reason I can see that we have never had such things is because we actually kill chickens and eat them every year, only keep the very best to produce eggs and offspring and our management practices are such that it must make for the best health practices..as simple as those are. Nothing fancy...no DE, no dewormers, no medicated feeds, not much of anything but food, water, fresh air and sunlight.

We also have wild birds all around our chickens. We bring in other birds without quarantining them. We have the same weather conditions as most of the folks in the middle of the continent except we have a lot of humidity in these mountains. I really can't explain why we don't have illnesses in the flocks nor give any scientific proof, but we just don't.

For this reason I can't tell you what to do with MG. I don't even know what those initials stand for!

That may sound dumb but I've never studied up on poultry diseases at all because they just aren't a part of our world. I'm sorry I couldn't help with that question....maybe another OT can help with that one?

2. I use broodies for hatching and have never owned an incubator. I've just recently been fooling with broodies in the past 5 years or so. In the past we never had many breeds that went broody and we were dealing with POL egg production and DP breeds that only occasional went off by themselves and had a hatch but it wasn't something we ever tried to manage until recently.

I'm not doing too well on answering these questions, am I? Any other OT wanna give me a hand here???

 

[stonykill]

Caught this little guy in the live trap baited with marshmallows last night

will be relocating him to a state park 10 miles away or so... Husband says he can't shoot an animal in a trap.
Took some pics of my 6&7 week old chicks this morning as well. I have. Feeling I have one cockerel and two pullets, but would appreciate any advice you have too

check you State laws. Many states require a $400 permit to release trapped animals. But you can kill them for free

 

[Beekissed]

RE: DE

Just a few links to things I've found. I tried to list the most authoritative and leave out places that are selling the stuff.

http://www.dirtdoctor.com/Diatomaceous-Earth_vq21.htm


Quote:

http://independent.academia.edu/pes...Earth_-_The_Natural_Answer_To_Insect_Problems

; MAFF, 1980; Jerrard and Wildey, 1980; Jefferies, 1979; Anon, 1975; Legner et al, 1975; Bills, 1973; Geden et al, 1988; Axtell, 1986 and Pfeiffer, 1980). There is also anecdotal evidence of good control of mites in poultry houses through the encouragement of the beetle (in chicken manure) as a natural predator.

There is so much more to consider in the culture of good deep litter than just dusting everything down to kill everything. That is a short term plan of action and must be repeated over and over, with little long term effects. I like to approach things like pests by finding what kills them in nature and giving those things a good home...housing and breeding my own bug police, so to speak. For the garden and for livestock.

It's so much easier to live with a proper balance in nature than it is to take our ideas of what is "best" for all concerned and start killing everything in sight without regard to the fact that we may be killing our best friends out there who could make our job of husbandry a heck of a lot easier.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Hope to see you in Shawnee next weekend.

Questions:
1) MG - I know it runs its course in 2 - 3 weeks and that surviving birds will be carriers.  Do you automatically cull birds with the first symptoms or what treatments do you utilize?
I'm losing birds now to what I think is MG (watery eyes, mucus that crusts the nostrils, sneezing and some wheezing)  Birds affected are in quarantine and  using Vet RX in the water and Tylan 50 injections. They have ACV water and pumpkin in their pens.  I've culled those with matted eyes.  Totl loss so far is 15 out of 100 bird flock in past three days. Also set up a sparrow trap in the run as the sparrows are feasting on the hanging feeders.  Birds normally freerange 8 - 10 hours a day.

2) When not using a broody, do you prefer dry hatch incubation or do you stick with the recommended humidity in the incubator?
I've tried both methods with varying levels of success/failure. Would like to know your thoughts.

Since Bee asked.

On the first one, I can't help you much. If a hen volunteers for the crock pot, I usually oblige her. That might be behavioral or it might be that something is wrong with her. I really haven't had any contageous diseases so I can't give any advice from experience. If a hen or rooster makes me uncomfortable, they are gone.

On the incubator question. Some times of the year here I can get by without adding much or any water to the incubator. Some times I need to add moisture to two of the reservoirs I have available. I use a hydrometer. If I feel the humidity is too low, I add water. If it is too high with water in there, I let the water run out for a while. I don't worry about what the humidity is at any one instant in time. I want the average to be about right over the entire incubation. I don't have a cookbook to tell me that. It's more of a seat of the pants thing.

 

[JeffOeuf]

Well, I may be killing some beneficial exoskeleton insects, or I might not be (if they're not there), but my litter is dry and my coop doesn't stink and when it goes into the garden it provides a dose of micro-nutrients. I'm good with all that.

 

[galanie]

A mirror in the coop could sure make the flock look bigger...but beware of it reflecting and concentrating the sunlight and catchin' yer beddin' on far!    

 

Hey now! FAR is a texas word. We got Far Trucks and Far hoses and Far lanes!

 

[galanie]

I guess I'm a little confused then...if DE can slice up a hard bodied insect so badly that it then dessicates it or allows bacteria to kill the insect, how do the soft bodied insects fair?  And when it is fed to livestock to "slice up" intestinal worms and kill them...how does it then not slice and harm any other worm?  

Also...part of the action of DE is when it is being groomed off of the legs and bodies of bugs, their ingesting it causes it to cut up their intestines..again resulting in killing them.  So beneficial bugs and worms just are automatically immune to all these killing qualities of the DE?  If DE can kill bad nematodes in the soil, how can it not kill the beneficial and predatory nematodes as well? 

If I could see some documentation on how it is that selective, I might believe that it won't have any effect on beneficial nematodes in the culture of the DL in the coop.  Using DE to dessicate and dry up litter will also, I'm thinking, dessicate and dry up any beneficial yeasts, bacteria or nematodes in that same litter from what I understand about their growth and development. 

Better yet, If that's what it really does, then how can it not slice up the insides of the bird?? The answer: Because it doesn't. Food Grade DE is a drying agent. Period. It doesn't do SQUAT when wet. POOL GRADE DE does indeed have all these knife edges due to the heat treatment it gets. There's so much misinformation out there about DE. And most of it perpetrated by the folks that sell it even!

This explains why there is conflicting info on DE. One is reporting on Not Food Grade and thinking that all DE is identical. It is not. Regular, straight mined, real, untreated DE is not like ground glass. Pool Grade is. I still am unsure about the stuff sold as an insecticide. I am unable to tell if it's been treated or not. Of course all of it says not to breathe it. Well DUH any kind of dust isn't really great for the lungs.

 

[Beekissed]

Just like Texans to think they invented a hillbilly accent....

You REALLY don't want to start comparing accents up in here, do ya? I think I may have you beat if I sample from the southern part of the state.

It's quite distinctive.... whenever you think of someone in a wife beater and a greasy ball cap, standing in front of a news crew describing the UFO, just listen real close and you will hear Boone County assaulting your ears until you laugh... or run screaming into another room.