Chickens for 10-20 years or more? Pull up a rockin' chair and lay some wisdom on us!

[al6517]

A few words......................

Toe Punching....................

The Diagram Walt posted is considered the standard operating procedure for the toe puching of very young day old - several days old chicks. it is a great method used by serious breeders who put serious numbers on the ground each year, it helps keep track of not only breeding groups and breeds but also is used effectively in ID'ing several Generations of birds to be used in further breeding. It doesn't hurt the chick bleeding is very little to non exsistant and will not become infected if you keep clean brooders. It's simple, easy and fast, plain & simple period. It also helps to learn once again how to vent sex chicks as this will also add another tool in your toe puching.

Leg Bands........................

After intial toe punching......... when the chick is big enough to be banded after the first chick culling session, I band them using wide spiral colored numbered bands. these bands are great IMO they come in many various sizes and colors, they can and do fit very well on very young birds all the way to adults. If done properly and monitored systematicly replacing them with the next sizes up they work great. Keep in mind a spiral band will stretch and conform to growing birds until the next size is needed. Put the bands above the spur line, and they should be slightly loose fitting but in way can slip off at all even during animated behavior. another advantage is these bands when replaced can be used again further down the road, so buying a variety of sizes and colors and different numbers will last you for a seriously long long time.

Using both these methods are very effective when done properly and common sense is used, with the sky is falling mentality of the BYC it is important to remember to also read how well these methods work instead of concentrating on why they don't and how harmful they are. They get messed up by rookies with no common sense and then perpetuated by the masses of even more rookies. Then the consenses is they are bad, well they're not !!! the problem is most people won't do it because they think they can't or won't because the movement is against these practices knowing the nay sayers are incompetant.

Once again we here at the OT harbor distain for this majority simply because they are wrong !!!! period !!! we are here primarily to dispell these MYTHS in animal husbandry perpetuated by the pet chicken community. If you want to move up and become more involved in your chickens for whatever reason, listen to those who know not those with an IQ of -100 who love to make the BYC their home. LOL you want results go get results LOL.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Ah HA! That is a New Hampshire Red. By the time I get home where I can post a picture of the two pullets I picked up this summer that were sold as NHRs, I know this thread will be about 20+ pages away, but what I got is obviously NOT NHRs - they have white interspersed with their red feathers, not black. They're still my best layers & foragers. I'd like to know what they are at some point. I got two other pullets from this place that are supposedly a cross between the black Australorp and the NHR, pretty, nice fluffy butt and so far, good layers, just smaller eggs. My EE's & Wyandottes have quit laying completely this winter and are hard molting, so these new pullets are a nice addition.

This is a New Hampshire. (no red) The official breed name is NH. When cockers or bird folks say Red they mean the Rhode Island Red.

Over on the Heritage Large Fowl thread, Bob Blosi posted this last night. THIS is a New Hampshire. That said, Bee's hatchery girl has got it going on. I'll say again, breed that old hen before she passes on. She's got utility genetics you really want.

 

[delisha]

My red birds with the white tails are from my RIR stock bred to Cornish or leghorn. My NH looking birds are also RIR bred to Bars or Dark Cornish. Because of all the crossing through the years I can get the white or black tails out of the same hen.

I have even gotten them out of a pure white hen. Looks really never matter to me until recently. Too many customers are looking for *pets* and colored eggs. Until I was on here never even knew they had blue and green eggs. I feel like a new student who has been kept in kindergarten for two years. The web has opened a whole new world of chickens.

 

[delisha]

Quote:

 

[Beekissed]

This is a New Hampshire. (no red) The official breed name is NH. When cockers or bird folks say Red they mean the Rhode Island Red.

Over on the Heritage Large Fowl thread, Bob Blosi posted this last night. THIS is a New Hampshire. That said, Bee's hatchery girl has got it going on. I'll say again, breed that old hen before she passes on. She's got utility genetics you really want.

WOW. So that's what that poor little hen of mine should look like! Couldn't be farther apart...poles apart. Monopoly money compared to the real deal. I mean that! There is no way you could tell that mine has any of this breed's heritage in her except she is vaguely coppery red in color. Not another feature resembles this exceptional bird. Wonder how that show bird lays? Fred, is that something they use in the judging criteria of mature hens?

I've read that, back in the day, when dairy cows were judged, they had to keep track of her total gallons of milk per year, the butter fat content, etc. It was part of the total judging of the cow, or so I've read. Do they do this with hens and their lay rate?

 

[Beekissed]

Quote from Al: Great information, Al. I must confess that I have always thought the toe punch was a little harsh, without ever actually reading about it or thinking about it. Seemed like it would leave chicks vulnerable to infection, unlike the ear punch on a lamb or calf, due to the chicks walking in feces. Now I'm thinking that it was a knee-jerk, nursing style assumption.

Thank you for this post and I will rethink the process and try to learn more about it if I ever get so many offspring that I can't pick them out of a mob. It all makes sense if someone is actually trying to keep records on their breeding instead of naming the birds that come out and knowing them on sight, which is highly inefficient if you breed more than once a year and more than only one bird.

 

[Fred's Hens]

This is something Walt is better schooled in to answer but I'll give it stab. Walt can clarify, if and when he comes along.

I've doing some serious reading of poultry journals, newsletters and such from the APA and regional groups. There is real push on for the APA to even consider certifying heritage flocks. Very interesting. There's a ton of work to be done and clarity to yet be found on these matters, but function of the breed IS important, not just the candy coated exterior.

Walt owns a group of Kathy's New Hampshire and is likely mopping up the competition at any show he takes them. Why wouldn't he? LOL

I believe Walt said they feathered in quickly, grew quickly too. That IS a New Hampshire trait and needs to be there. That means they'll lay well too, in my book.

 

[maryhysong]

This is the best way to keep track of your chicks. The punch itself is very small and if done at hatch, will not bleed. Legbands can fall off and have the potential of injuring a bird if they don't fit properly as the bird grows......it is just a matter of how important it is to keep track of the birds from day one.

Walt

Yes, this is what I was thinking of; keeping track of a batch of chicks from a particular source. Just wondering if you couldn't do it at hatch, what would be the oldest you would do it at? I was also looking at leg bands for the birds that I have that are older.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Al, I'm gonna pick your brain about those leg bands, toward the end of the week.

 

[maryhysong]

I've read that, back in the day, when dairy cows were judged, they had to keep track of her total gallons of milk per year, the butter fat content, etc. It was part of the total judging of the cow, or so I've read. Do they do this with hens and their lay rate?

I don't know about an actual livestock show, but for cows and goats there is the Dairy Herd Improvement Program where they do keep track of pounds of milk and percent of butterfat. These are official records and are used to improve the breeding on dairy farms. They are also used in advertising the get and stud services of particular animals. I've never heard of any program like that regarding chicken eggs. Even in Ameraucauna and Marans where egg color is considered part of the breed criteria, at a show it does not enter into the judging of the animals at all. But could you imagine having to band and trap nest every one of your birds just to see how many eggs they layed in a year? I"m sure there are some that do and I know some of the research folks in the past have done that, that's partly how they have developed those super efficient egg laying machines.