Chickens for 10-20 years or more? Pull up a rockin' chair and lay some wisdom on us!

[Dead Rabbit]

when i had some cocci here, it was brought in by some OEGB i shpped in. it was spread to some d'uccles that were penned beside them. i ended up culling all that were sick.

but i firmly believe in that there is good in most all things. and that includes anti-biotics, meds, and the such. i rarely use any of them but there is a time an place for all things. i dont believe in the all powerful preventative measures that some like to tout. i feel that genetics play more of role in health than most like to give credit for. and thats in all animal husbandry, and even in humans. you breed for strength and you will generally have strong individuals. both man and beast. even still some individuals are stronger healthier than others. once again genetics.

with that said, i will use medicated start and grow for most all biddies, just to get them started. ive raised thousands this way. seen the positive results to get them up and running. it has very low doses of amprol in it. this will help with cocci. if its a bad case of cocci, you may have to go with something stronger, sulmet does a wonderful job. but being a sulpher type drug it can be rough on the kidneys. so you dont want to use it but sparingly. sometimes a product called corrid will help. there is like 7-9 varieties of cocci that are known. i cant remeber it all now, been to long since i cared that greatly about the health of fowl. some drugs work on some varieties some dont. but ive had the best fortune with sul-met. you can follow directions on the bottle or go with 3 days on, 3 days off. usually one time on will do trick, perhaps 2 sessions at times. any more than that, they aint worth saving. no matter how valuble they are. they will get better but the damage is done internally, not from the sulmet or corrid but the actual cocci. after the fact you need to put good bacteria back in their guts. yogart is the easiest cheapest way that ive ever used. there are others but for most here, thats all thats necessary. at times a sickness will take the "body" off fowl. they will be puny, no breast, etc. bay-tril is a good drug to help them recover in this instance. all these drugs mentioned are available at most any/all feed stores.

now,,,,i dont recommend personally that any of this to be done but in extreme situations. extreme as in value of the birds. some birds are worth hundreds of dollars. a little bit of medicating is of absolute necessary when your dealing with this kinda money. show stock, proven breeders, etc. i wouldnt waste my time or money on drugs for the barnyard types or poor quality stock that most can buy from feed stores, hatcheries or what most are selling at swaps or on craigslist. these are easily replaceable, for just a few bucks. drugs arent cheap.

 

[Beekissed]

Thank you for the shared wisdom, Beekissed! I appreciate this thread and have learned so much from it! The chicks that I have dying are in an inside brooder. I have lost 2 out of 10 one to four week old chicks. They have plenty of ventilation, plenty of space, clean bedding, clean water, and the correct temperature. They have not been outside at all and came from breeders who did not have them outside. As soon as the first one showed signs of being sick, I started giving them live culture, plain yogurt mixed with their chick starter. Hopefully, the good bacteria in the yogurt will help them survive! This is the first group of chicks that I haven't put ACV into their water. I guess I've learned a lesson the hard way.

The highlighted portion may be one of the problems. Birds develop antibodies against disease when they are exposed to them in their environment...the earlier, the better. Birds with no immunities are more susceptible. I'd say that birds that have never been outside are just like new chicks themselves...no antibodies, poorly developed immune systems, etc.

I get my chicks on the ground as soon as possible and I will save bedding in my brooder from the last batch just so they can be exposed to all the cultured bacteria there.

No offense meant here, but in the future you might look for breeders who incorporate the natural cleanliness of the outside, grass, sunlight, fresh soil into their husbandry if you want to have a flock that thrives well on its own and without the crutch of meds. I'm thinking you might have gotten chicks from genetics that have not be developed for hardiness and a flock that hasn't been managed for good health. When this is the case, it comes down to depending on medicine to fix the mistakes in management.


ETA: Of course, that is just my opinion and should be treated as such. You will find many opinions on here and one can pick and choose the one they like the best. I'm not the expert on chicken husbandry and there are many more on here with other husbandry practices that are successful and works for them and they have many more years experience than I, to be sure!

 

[PetRock]

Beekissed, I don't really think that it came from the breeder. I've seen her set up from breeding pens to incubators, to brooders and she has a wonderful set up. The oldest of the 7 chicks that I came home with must have been 2-3 weeks old. They were still in a brooder and I'm pretty sure that they had not been outside yet so I guess it would have been better for their immunity systems if they had been. I do know that our healthiest birds are the ones that are broody raised and began free range foraging as early as day 2.

 

[Beekissed]

Mine too...there is something to be said for early exposure to the adult germs.

Sort of like mother's milk...

 

[Dead Rabbit]

i usually keep mine in a brooder box, till they are fully feathered, (except the head) with no real problems. now with the occasional yard hatched (unplanned, unexpected, unwanted) they are some tough lil biddies. the ones that survive are strong. they gotta be to keep up with mamma, and they get nothing special fed but what ever they can pick up off the ground. no starter, nothing special in water, they cant even reach the waterer, they gotta fend for themselves or die. matters not to me. and those that make it are exceptional

but back to the brooder....ive had no problems with these coming out weeks later. it still goes back, IMO, to how strong the brood stock was that created the biddies. and ill go on record to say, all those that ive ordered from a hatchery, which is mainly just layer types, and sexlink at that, are some of the healthiest, stoutest, biddies ive ever seen. good brood stock, a good hybrid cross, will give you good vigorous offspring. no matter how bad i screw them up

 

[Dead Rabbit]

forgot to add, my brooder is one i built, copied after the metal brooders you see for sale. they are up on wire, with a droppings pan that i can slide in and out to empty. heat is from a light bulb that is adjustable from a dimmer switch that i installed on the outside of the box. i dont use a thermometer, i let the chicks tell me what they need. and i have added ventilation holes since original building. keeps moisture down.

raising them in plastic tote, or cardboard box is not the best or healthiest method, but will work in a pinch.

 

[flocksalot]

I've had never experienced Cocci until last year. I always have my chicks vaccinated if they come from the hatchery, but last years vaccine or person packing didn't work right. When I first started loosing chicks I was at a lose as to why. I know all the signs from reading here now, but had never seen it in all the years I've been around poultry. I took one chick into the local vet for a diagnosis and then put them on some Corid. I was able to save about half the batch and they have went on to be quite the egg layers. Had people on this sight not suggested and used some medication I would have probably lost the whole batch which is an expenditure that I cannot afford. Now would I use it at the slightest sign of illness? No way! I also had a bout of something go through our chickens. I have no idea if I'm right, but I think it may have been CRD. There were many dead wild birds lying around for me to pick up every day also. I did treat and not cull. Most healed fine and the ones that didn't we did cull as they were the weaker. Whatever was killing the wild birds was probably also what got our chickens, and since we free range year round I would surmise they picked it up that way. Free ranging does expose our birds to things they wouldn't come near in a pen, but penning allows other things to develop that can also lead to illness.

Now Bee as for those tiny little coop cages you see in the coops page, I love watching CL for them. They make wonderful Broody coops. I got a little brown one a few years ago and although I'm not crazy about the color, who has time to paint. I took out the nest box wall but left the ramp to get to the landing, and love to stash a broody in there. Last year I had one too many broodies and put in some boards to make a second level, so it was then broodie apts. We currently have three small coops that I use for broody coops, or if someone wants a pure breed chick then I will cage a roo and a couple of hens in the largest of them. Two of the coops can easily be used by two broodies at a time and the third can be converted with a few boards, so they do have their purpose for me. If I was only raising a small amount of chickens and lived with immediate neighbors I would probably have something small and cute too. As it is using them keeps the fat girls from eating all the baby food and gives the momma a chance to adjust to other chickens around without the need to pick a fight with every single one of them. That way when they are a week or two old momma can take them out and about with more confidence when I open the door. Of course then the fat girls are in there eating the baby food unless I put it up. But then still the fat girls will crowd in there like it's the most popular place on the farm. It's some silly strange behavior they have.

 

[tdgill]

Quote: gosh, this was tough to read. And I thought I was getting a little more matter of fact about the difficulties in raising chickens. I respect many of the livestock/old timer's opinions, but I regret to say that after this post - I will read your future posts with reservations and that is a shame.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I've never had a problem with cocci. i don't know if that is because I don't have it in the ground or if it's because I deal with it before it's a problem. About Day 3, I take dirt from the run that the adult's spend time on and put that in the brooder. This exposes the chicks to anything the adults have, whether disease or probiotics, plus it puts grit in their system. I raise them on wire but I have an area in the brooder that is solid so the poop can build up enough that they can eat each others poop and share anything they pick up. Supposedly it takes two to three weeks for them to develop the immunity to the specific cocci protozoa.

Others on this forum that used to have problems with cocci when they left the brooder and hit the ground have tried a version of this and said it worked for them. I'm not a biologist or trained medical professional so bear that in mind. This is just something I do.

 

[Beekissed]

It's sort of like inocculating them with the exposure, I would imagine. Good bacteria in, inhibits the bad bacterial growth, good bowel health and cultures established.