Chickens for 10-20 years or more? Pull up a rockin' chair and lay some wisdom on us!

[Aeropennchick]

I caught my Australian cattle dog mix coming out of the coop with a blue egg in her mouth. She went up the small ramp and through the small chicken door to get it. I had been blaming my chickens for the low number of eggs/day when actually there was a black & white bandit stealing them. I now keep a closer watch on the dog when the coop door is open and my number of eggs/day has increased! The dog has gone back to supplementing her diet with fresh chickie poo.

Yeah my daschshund thinks they are treat dispensers. He wanders around after them whining, like he's begging for a treat! What a goofball!!

 

[hannahransom]

I'm scared to be berated, but here goes:

They eat organic layer, which I have out for them at all times. They also eat scrap fruits and veggies, also all organic as I only eat organically. I feed them scratch (organic) occasionally for them to scratch through the litter, they eat bugs and weeds and are certainly not kept away from the compost pile. They are out most of the day, in a yard that is about 100x80. There coop is not very coopish, at all, since half of it is made out of chicken wire (very well ventilated--I live in a warm climate). It doesn't smell, but I don't disinfect. I scrape and shovel poop occasionally off their roosts and such, I haven't cleaned out the poop off the ground (they have been in this coop since maybe Jan or Feb? before that they were in a tractor, though I had fewer and they were smaller. No deaths until the moved into the coop). My mom did have two chickens in the coop that they are currently in until I moved mine in. The two chickens were basically old layers from a chicken farm place here, so I am sure they had been vaccinated and my mom fed them non-organically (I don't know if that kind of feed has stuff in it to protect from diseases). To my knowlegde they wre never sick. I have seven chickens, started with 9, two died of..worms? I don't know. I have a poop sample at the vet right now and I am seeing what they have hopefully. I mostly leave them alone. I feed them and change their water but I like to just let them live their chicken lives. I bought them around 5 weeks old and they are around 7 months now, so I haven't had chickens for long. The one that started laying earliest was around 19.5 weeks and lays like a champ. 6 of the seven have laid, one of the ones that I think is sick has never laid yet. One that has been laying daily stopped about 4 days ago now (or was it three?) and has started displaying symptoms of being off. I was thinking maybe it was egg-bound, but I can't feel any bump. She seems to be a little differently effected than the others who have been afflicted, though. I also found a soft egg shell near their roosts when scraping poop (this was just today) and her poop looked a little egg white-ish (does that sound like egg bound?). I give them ACV in the water occasionally.
Here are some pictures:
this is the yard they range in

here is their coop floor and such, you can see i just use weeds as deep litter, you can't really see or smell any poop, so I assume it's fine. I dump new stuff by the door and put some scratch in it for them to spread out. It's about 12x12.. They like to use that old BBQ as a laying box.

This is the area of their coop that they roost in, and the most poopy looking. I was going to take all of that stuff out when I took my moms out and moved mine in, but it seems that they love perching on it all so I left it (same with the BBQ nest box.. ha)


Here is a video of my two that are currently "under the weather":

The white one is the one that I was suspecting maybe she was egg bound, the other is a california gray, about 6.5 months, both of them they same age.

Anything else I am forgetting or you'd like to know? I really want to know what's up! I'm not wanting to medicate, but I have very few chickens and also not a lot of money to buy new ones, especially if they would just die due to whatever is afflicting these girls. Thanks!

 

[hannahransom]

Oh and what do I do when I see a bird that doesn't look as well: This keeps changing, I guess. Like I mentioned, so new to all of this. At first I separated, and then I realized that that made them not eat and be completely distressed. and a new one came down with whatever it was, so I realized if they are going to have it they are going to have it and I should just let them be together. Is that really terrible?

 

[hannahransom]

And here is the lovely present I just saw the white one deliver:


doesn't look great, eh? This is much different poop than the others that I had had issues with, which is why I'm suspecting it's something different. I would just think if she was egg bound even someone inexperienced like me would be able to feel it.

 

[Beekissed]

No one will berate you, that I know of...no reason to that I can see!

They look great in the video so I'm assuming that was taken before they started acting "off". I'm going to give you my take on the situation from the little I can figure from what you have told me but some other OT may have more/better insight than I when it comes to warm climates and all.

You purchased birds at 5 wks of age and placed them in a coop that had been previously used by some old hens. This means they were exposed to whatever those old hens had by the droppings left there and the microorganisms present in the soils, which can thrive in warm humid climates for some time after the old inhabitants are long gone. The old hens were surviving into old age, so I'm assuming whatever they had they had formed immunities for and were carriers but not affected.

Your birds may not have had the antibodies already established in their systems that would keep them immune from any ill effects from the exposure. Your birds must have died recently if you have stool samples pending, so they made it to nearly 7 mo. of age before dying? I'd venture to guess that whatever they might have died from it was not what was already in your coop environment but I could be wrong....sometimes it takes time for some diseases/pathogens to colonize another creature's bowels enough to cause illness and death.

Did they show any wasting away, pale combs and wattles, lack of laying, poor appetite before they died or did they just die suddenly with no warning?

Whatever the reason, you have 7 survivors with a few varying symptoms....

First, it sounds as if they have a calcium deficiency, so you may want to place oyster shell and their own eggs shells right back into the feed.

Second, I've heard that intestinal parasites are more prevalent in humid, hot climates like yours, so you may need to do some preventative worming measures....I occasionally will mix garlic powder in the feed for a week or so(no matter what anyone says, it does not make the eggs have a bad taste...both foods are sulfur laden foods).

You can also use something as simple as Shaklee's soap...expensive for the initial purchase but the soap is concentrated and lasts simply forever. The soap in the water will kill worm loads....it only takes a few drops, small ones. I also feed raw pumpkin seeds which also affect worms.

The thing you have to do to avoid constantly having to dose birds with dewormer is to create a bird that either can thrive with parasites present or create an environment that worms cannot cycle in. With your humid conditions that will be difficult and dosing with commercial dewormers will create worms that can survive that dosing. If it were me, I'd be dosing with the things I mentioned when you see pale combs or a drop in lay and I'd also kill any hens that do not respond to these treatments. I know you said you can't afford to lose any, but can you afford to feed those that don't produce? What sense does it make to be getting a few eggs from more than a few hens? It doesn't....keep those that produce on your management and breed them to produce more of the same.

If these were mine, I'd get a rooster if you can have one, and breed for disease and parasite resistance. Good, DP roosters of layer genetics(try RIR or BA~both hardy, layer breeds) can be found free or cheap if you keep your eyes open. When a hen looks sickly and doesn't recover on her own in about three days, cull her. I know it sounds bad to tell someone with only a few hens to kill one but she will most likely not earn her keep anyway and she will most likely die anyway. Whatever she is suffering from could be spread to the others so it's best to just eliminate the problem. The ones that survive are the genetics to carry on. Cull for health and cull for productivity and soon you will have a flock that can withstand nearly anything.

I would also start feeding fermented feeds and placing mother vinegar in their water right now...these birds need to have a strong immune system and a healthy intestinal wall, so start now on trying to develop that. The probiotics in both of these things will help you get there. You can ferment the feeds you are currently feeding and it will only increase the nutrients availability and it will increase the bird's ability to absorb those nutrients. Good nutrition helps to give good health.

Getting a healthy flock takes time, commitment to a single purpose, and some fortitude when it comes to dealing with weeding out inferior birds. It doesn't happen over night and there is no single magic bullet that will make one for you, you simply have to figure out how to make it happen and then just experiment on what works best for you. Some farmers spend many long years getting just the right flock genetics and husbandry style, but when they do, THEN it's magic...but not over night.

 

[Beekissed]

And here is the lovely present I just saw the white one deliver:


doesn't look great, eh? This is much different poop than the others that I had had issues with, which is why I'm suspecting it's something different. I would just think if she was egg bound even someone inexperienced like me would be able to feel it.

Here is something to look at:

http://www.chat.allotment.org.uk/index.php?topic=17568.0

 

[hannahransom]

No the video was the first day that the white one displayed anything and the black and white has been off for a few weeks. I'm starting to wonder if the black and white one is ok now because the white one is just so bad off, so by comparison she seems ok. My chickens are normally CRAZY. When they see me they come running because they think I have food for them, they run a lot anyway, they fly around, they are chipper. It's pretty noticeable when one is off.
My ones that died were about 2 months ago (1st one) and than 1 month ago (2nd). They both were wasted to pretty such skin and bones when they died. Pales combs, yes, but they had not started laying yet, just as the one who is almost 7 months hasn't laid yet either. My white rock had laid quite regularly until a few days ago, and her comb is still red.
My feed actually has garlic in it, here are the ingredients: Organic corn, Organic seasame meal, Organic peas, Ground limestone, Organic sun-dried alfalfa, Monocalcium phosphate, redmond conditioner, diatomacious earth, organic kelp meal, mineral sea salt, methionine-99%, copper sulfate, choline chloride, organic rice concentrate, organic garlic, organic horseradish, organic anise oil, organic juniper berry, sodium bentonite, ferrous sulfate.. more viatmins I don't want to type.
I have also added garlic to their feed on my own, which they hated but ate it anyway since that was all I left them. I do give them cucumber seed and squash seeds.

Though my climate is warm, it is NOT humid. At all. And it hasn't really been that hot yet this year. I don't even know if it's been to 90 yet.

The stool sample is from the black and white one who has been off and hasn't started laying yet.

What is the shaklees soap? I looked it up but I don't know the specific product. What is in it?

I would love to get a rooster but I have a few logistical things I am trying to work out, like if I get one and he dies because of whatever my chickens may have, OR if he brings something in.. Also, how long would I keep him before I decided he has a good enough immune system to breed. Wouldn't I want to start out with many and see who survives and breed him? etc.

I can't wait for that magic. I am just having a hard time because I realize that what I need to do is selectively breed the good ones, but I have only 7 chickens and no rooster and need more, and than others are saying don't bring in more and biosecurity crap, so I am really at a loss of what to do. I would like to hatch all of my own chicks and have them brought up by brody mamas so they can fit in well to the flock, but I realize I should ahve started out with more.

 

[Beekissed]

You'll make yourself crazy trying to weigh in all those factors!

There comes a time when you have to decide what is an acceptable risk...then take it. Sure, you could bring in another rooster and he could bring something along. Or he might die from what your flock has, who knows? But the only way you are ever going to find out is to try SOMETHING different than what you are doing now.

If you always do what you've always done, you will always have what you always had.

And time is the only way to really develop a flock that has good immune systems and sustainable health....it takes time and taking risks like the one described above, especially if you have no money.

Many would suggest getting breeding stock from reliable breeders and start with better stock, etc. but that isn't really in the realm of folks with a limited income. When you pay $50 for a chicken and it dies, you are out that money. When you pay $5 for a chicken, you still have $45 more dollars to replace it with 9 other birds. Buying from a breeder does not insure that bird will stay healthy and won't die on you. It happens and sometimes for no apparent reason. Fifty dollars doesn't mean much to some people but it means a lot where I come from.

When you are on a limited income and just want birds for food, it's cheaper to start out with just plain old birds and keep and breed those that do well. It's food, not show, and all you need are birds that stay alive and healthy to make more just like them and eggs that are fit to eat.

Some of the strongest genetics I know are from little old flocks raised by little old women who have bred mutts to mutts for years upon years and only the healthy survived(or were allowed to) and reproduced and they will just keep on doing that if allowed to do so.

Success takes work and time, but it's worth the patience and the learning along the way and it's also worth doing if you find all your efforts have yielded a good, thriving flock. Everyone wants everything instantly nowadays and they settle for less than they should because it's fast....but real quality takes time and effort to make and it's worth the waiting.

 

[hannahransom]

Actually, I got mine from a local breeder and they were $15-20 each I wanted hers because she fed all organically. The chickens really did seems great, until all of this happened.

 

[stonykill]

while not an OT....yet, I'll interject a few things. Sometimes it seems, no matter what you do, chickens just die. Sometimes completely unexplainable.

Last year I did something I never did before. I bought chicks, leftovers from a feed store. Hatchery birds. 11 of them. I raised them like all my others. No meds. Feed and cracked corn from Blue Seal Feeds. Built a new coop for them. All went well for 5 months. They started laying in December. And laying well. 4 of them just died after laying an egg. Just dropped dead. The last one I found gasping for air, her egg still warm. I suspect a heart attack in all cases. I simply feel it was poor genes.
The ones that survived were bred with various Sumatra roo's from my flock. Their offspring seem really healthy. The surviving girls are all healthy and lay well. They are now in 3 different coops with 3 different roo's. All is well now.

The only other thing I can think of is changing your brand of food. Perhaps they had a bad lot of food? Hard to say, but given your situation, that is something I would try.

Good luck with your birds. It is never fun when bad things happen. Most often when something bad happens, I learn from it.