Chickens for 10-20 years or more? Pull up a rockin' chair and lay some wisdom on us!

[stonykill]

I'm wondering if the fellas who are developing these heritage breed flocks are incorporating that concept into their flock's genetics and husbandry methods? Heritage..meaning those first chickens brought over on the boat and then developed into specific breed lines/types. I can guarantee that there was no formulated feed recipe fed to those flocks back then. They foraged, primarily.

In my flock I have a mix of breeds that are considered heritage breeds, though they be from hatchery stock. Then I cull from those birds to get the most hardy, best producing birds from THAT breed in my flock. I'm actually just turning that so-called inferior hatchery stock around to produce birds that have the necessary instincts and genetics to forage for their foods and thrive on natural husbandry...which are the true characteristics of heritage breeds.

The SOP describes a certain physical standard but that's as far as it goes. Where did that physical standard originate? From birds that had a deep chest for a reason or hens that had wide bottoms for a reason...not just because it looks good or proper in our eyes. All those physical standards developed from the need to survive and thrive and produce. It almost follows that 99% of the birds judged on that original SOP were because these birds~firstly~were the big producers and hardy flock members and then someone noticed that all those type birds had this or that physical characteristic. You can count on most hens with wide pelvises to be good egg producers just because they are structurally built for it...not all big bottom gals are good producers but most good producers are big bottom gals. Like me!

It seems a shame to produce birds that are SOP proper without going a bit further and using those standards to let them live the way for which those standards were developed. I'm sure that most of it is that not many of us live in ideal foraging situations and must do the best we can...but what if we MADE ideal foraging conditions by developing woodlots and pasture to promote optimal insect and herbal life? Is it worth it to work that hard? Heck, if you're retired and you have time on your hands for a hobby like breeding birds, why not spend the extra time to develop them even further? It would be cool to try!

you know about 10 pages or more back I was asking for advise on EXACTLY this. And I got nothing but flack, except from a VERY few. It actually took 2 pages to get my simple question answered, and here we are. You do what I have been working on in my birds. Thank you for doing what you do, and I'm glad to see I have been doing much of what you do before I even found this thread. I'm really looking forward to your book. As great as this thread is it is difficult to re reference material. A book I can hold in my hand would be much nicer.

 

[Beekissed]

And you will continue to get flack every time you go against popular opinion...but just think about the source of that so-called popular opinion.

What do they do that isn't being tried and done by millions of others? ..and is precisely why they actually do it~it's easy.

It's easy to just get some chickens, put them in a confined space and feed them a bag of food with a chicken picture on it and give the medicines that is required to keep that chicken alive long enough to eat the substandard egg that is produced...it would be even easier to just go and buy it from the store. One is just more expensive and the person feels like they are being different than the pack and producing "healthier" eggs....I can assure you that the adjective "barely" should be in front of the word "healthier".

Some things are worth putting forth more effort initially to make things easier in the end and this is one of those things. Think about the health issues, the cost issues and the convenience issues that are created by a dependence on grain based feeding methods! That all developed when farming went towards producing more and faster than everyone else so that we can make more money. It's not a bit about "feeding America". I've not met one farmer that farms primarily out of altruistic thoughts of feeding the masses...bottom line is money. They wouldn't farm if they couldn't make the money. Period.

Everyone has to make a livin'....yeah, I know this. But does the ends justify the means? Not with me. I take honor to work with me and it is my constant companion. It's not popular and it has caused me a downright pain in the butt, literally and figuratively, but it's something that no one can buy or take from me. No wage is worth compromising your honor and integrity...yeah, it won't buy food but at least you die having been a real human and not a mere herd member, unremarkable due to your very sameness with everyone else swayed by popular opinion.

I take that same attitude with raising animals for food...there are shortcuts I take out of necessity of providing food for my family but there are some shortcuts that I cannot justify....like using meds to keep the flock healthy. Might as well eat from the store shelves.

So you'd really buy a book I wrote on this subject? Chickens are kind of a frivolous subject matter, I know and many people laugh at me when I tell them I'm writing a book on them but this book is more than a how-to on chickens...it actually holds more information that is applicable to the rest of a person's life as well. Farm with integrity and hard work pays off in spades.

 

[stonykill]

Bee, this book I would buy. I currently don't own any books on raising chickens. Never bought one. I have a few chicken magazines laying around that I either purchased, or more often were given to me because I have chickens. Back to the books, I would pick one up, like one of the Storey's books, flip through it, and quickly realize it wasn't for me. See I'm just a poor country boy, at least poor in money. Rich in happiness and contentment. So money is wisely spent. I see a book with your knowledge in it as a worthwhile investment. Even if the info directly doesn't work for me, I have a starting point that is proven for a flock raised similar to mine.

 

[MoonAngel12]

Bee - I definitely would read your book! I still have yet to make it through this whole thread, but from what I have read your flock management sounds like a wonderful goal to shoot towards... it would be great to have it all in one place! Every time I saw it mentioned about you working on a book I was hoping it really was true and not just a running joke for the thread!

 

[Erin~TheChickenLover]

And you will continue to get flack every time you go against popular opinion...but just think about the source of that so-called popular opinion.

What do they do that isn't being tried and done by millions of others? ..and is precisely why they actually do it~it's easy.

It's easy to just get some chickens, put them in a confined space and feed them a bag of food with a chicken picture on it and give the medicines that is required to keep that chicken alive long enough to eat the substandard egg that is produced...it would be even easier to just go and buy it from the store. One is just more expensive and the person feels like they are being different than the pack and producing "healthier" eggs....I can assure you that the adjective "barely" should be in front of the word "healthier".

Some things are worth putting forth more effort initially to make things easier in the end and this is one of those things. Think about the health issues, the cost issues and the convenience issues that are created by a dependence on grain based feeding methods! That all developed when farming went towards producing more and faster than everyone else so that we can make more money. It's not a bit about "feeding America". I've not met one farmer that farms primarily out of altruistic thoughts of feeding the masses...bottom line is money. They wouldn't farm if they couldn't make the money. Period.

Everyone has to make a livin'....yeah, I know this. But does the ends justify the means? Not with me. I take honor to work with me and it is my constant companion. It's not popular and it has caused me a downright pain in the butt, literally and figuratively, but it's something that no one can buy or take from me. No wage is worth compromising your honor and integrity...yeah, it won't buy food but at least you die having been a real human and not a mere herd member, unremarkable due to your very sameness with everyone else swayed by popular opinion.

I take that same attitude with raising animals for food...there are shortcuts I take out of necessity of providing food for my family but there are some shortcuts that I cannot justify....like using meds to keep the flock healthy. Might as well eat from the store shelves.

So you'd really buy a book I wrote on this subject? Chickens are kind of a frivolous subject matter, I know and many people laugh at me when I tell them I'm writing a book on them but this book is more than a how-to on chickens...it actually holds more information that is applicable to the rest of a person's life as well. Farm with integrity and hard work pays off in spades.

I want to buy your book when you are ready to make it available. I'm sure it will be much more helpful than "Raising Chickens for Dummies" and "Storey's (spelling?) Guide To Raising Chickens".

 

[rosewolf22002]

Bee I have read from page one to page 493. I will buy your book when you sell it! Everyone is right there are books out there for pet chickens but I have yet to find one that talks like my grandpa and just gives it to you straight...Keep it up!

 

[Beekissed]

That's a good thing to hear...in order to get a publisher interested in a book, one has to prove they can market that book. Most publishers require you have a platform, or a launching place for your material. If you can't show you can make sales, they won't invest in the book.

When my book is ready I'll direct them to this thread to show that there are some people who want to buy it!

I am currently working on a webpage to go along with the book so that the information is easily referenced there as well. I'm just a slow, methodical person with flashes of impulsive artistic gumption, so projects like this takes both time and inspiration for me. Sometimes I want to write it and sometimes I just want to leave the chickening world to it's own devises and let them diaper all the birds they want.

I will attempt to negotiate that the book be extremely affordable and will take less for my own profit to insure that possibility. Nothing makes me madder than to spend a lot on a book of information to get it home and find that it wasn't worth the price I paid...in fact, so worthless as to be hard to even give it away!

 

[Achickenwrangler#1]

It's like trying to make a meal without a cookbook. Sure you make it the same way as you've done all these years, but what if you want something new? I may not have all the ingredients in your book, I may substitite a few things, but simply the same old thing is awfully boring. Whether new information works, or merely serves as afirmation, learning about different methods, especially what others have done successfully is always worthwhile. Yeah I want a look at that book too. Maybe I can learn a better way to process, always looking to streamline things.

 

[Beekissed]

That is precisely the only reason I would even consider to write a book. I have no desire to have anyone think my opinions or methods are the last word on chicken husbandry...none at all. But I see the only books out there have exactly the same information available to newbies and much of it isn't the right information, according to many people who actually have raised chickens.

What I see in these books is advice followed by inference that this method is the only way to raise chickens if you want to do it according to the popular standard, USDA/vet approved standard. I don't know many vets out there raising chickens. In fact, they barely get a chicken over view in medical school, which is why so many don't work on chickens. They know a lot about all the other livestock but not much emphasis is placed on chickens...they are rather expendable in the animal world. They are a small food animal and, until now, were not considered pets. I bet there will be new interest in training new vets on chickens, now when there is much money to be made off it due to this new fad of chickens as pets.

It's very frustrating to be looking for information on a subject and all the books you consult are more or less the same...this indicates there is only one way to build a house, raise a chicken, train a dog, bake bread or discipline children. By the sheer number of books all saying the same thing, it forces one to agree with them....after all, if that many authors tout the same method, it must be the best one, right?

No. I don't accept that. All the frustrated newbies that are raising chickens according to those books and are getting negative results are finding this out as well. The book makes it look so complicated that it just must be the intelligent approach, right?, and all the chickens are so cute and pretty and the coops so clean and neat. It's fiction and should be in that section of the library...not the how-to.

That's like going to vote for president and there is only one candidate offered. Doesn't leave any real alternatives for a better administration.

There should be a choice of methods and there should be someone writing that book that has applied other methods and can report on them. There should be information from oldsters included in that book...the people who have been doing it for years and with some success. You won't find a single old chicken farmer that advocates a visit to the vet...I can almost guarantee this. But those books do. They also advocate have a "medicine chest" on hand with a number of medicines and things to give and do to chickens. One of our OTs put it most eloquently when he said the only item in his medicine chest for chickens was an axe. This is reality and you won't find it stated in any book on chickens that is currently on the market.

This is why I want to write this book...so people who really want to succeed at this can find alternative information that, when put to the test, works~ and it works year after year. And the information won't just be from one person's experience but from many.

 

[fowlman01]

That's a good thing to hear...in order to get a publisher interested in a book, one has to prove they can market that book. Most publishers require you have a platform, or a launching place for your material. If you can't show you can make sales, they won't invest in the book.

When my book is ready I'll direct them to this thread to show that there are some people who want to buy it!

I am currently working on a webpage to go along with the book so that the information is easily referenced there as well. I'm just a slow, methodical person with flashes of impulsive artistic gumption, so projects like this takes both time and inspiration for me. Sometimes I want to write it and sometimes I just want to leave the chickening world to it's own devises and let them diaper all the birds they want.

I will attempt to negotiate that the book be extremely affordable and will take less for my own profit to insure that possibility. Nothing makes me madder than to spend a lot on a book of information to get it home and find that it wasn't worth the price I paid...in fact, so worthless as to be hard to even give it away!

When I was much younger I thought that most of the old people were stretching the truth with their tales of what they had done in life. Most of that was because I was young and didn't realize that people can do a lot of things if they live long enough. One of the things I did was..... I owned a printing company before I put my 20 years in at the university. That was in the 70's and to have a book published back then you had to go through fiery hoops or just pay the money and go to a vanity publishing company and pay them lots of money to print 5000 books that would remain in your storage for the rest of your life...not because they were not good.....although that was a reason in some cases, but because the average person does not know how to market anything. The one thing that I did learn is that even back then poultry books sold. We printed several book for the APA/ABA and they are all still selling well. Most are small paperbacks, but any good book on poultry will sell well. Now you can get one copy of a book without all the set up charges we had in the past. Most of printing was getting ready to go to print in those days. Now it is digital, so once the copy is scanned, it can be printed as needed without an inventory. It is known as Print on Demand.

Get started......

Walt