Chickens for 10-20 years or more? Pull up a rockin' chair and lay some wisdom on us!

[Back2MyRoots]

I dont really know. I think my ability to consider animals human has waned since I got a Lab and a Retriever. Back in the Day when we had Pyrenees and Aussies I certainly did. But now I think
I just consider them (dogs with no brain and no bravery) an echo of human. Like a reminder or a shadow. Or maybe the chickens are so much smarter and more i interesting than the dogs in my life right now I just put all that emotional energy on them instead. Poor chickens, watching me watching them with a glass of wine and a lettuce heart. Someone should have warned me about Retrievers. Honestly.

We had a wonderful lab when I was a little girl. My PawPaw rescued her from being drowned by her breeder because she wasn't "breed perfect". She was the best girl! Even my tough-as-nails MawMaw cried when she was killed by a bob cat. And she had personality out the wazoo---a little flaky and fiercely protective!

 

[Mountain Momma]

I love Labs!! Mine have been the most intelligent, worthy and wonderful dogs...

Well, that is what I expected from mine too! I didnt spend 500.00 on a dog that I knew was going to be a constant source of disappoinment. They dont bite the kids, they dont mess with the chickens, and they usually come when they are called. So yahoo I have nice family pets. However, they jump on people even though I am firm about that, the lab breaks every fence including the electric collar fence. The Retriever still chews all toys and stuffies. They are underfoot constantly, they refuse to bark at any wild animal, they dont chase foxes, they try to bring pine cones and sticks in the house they beg at the table, lick the dishes in the dishwasher, race up the stairs to beat me and then sit in the middle of the landing like they forgot where they were going, the retriever has gas so bad it can clear a room, they eat all kinds of things that make them throw up, they only want to fight 2 other dogs in the whole 50 dog neighborhood...a geriatric German Shepherd whose owner calls me when she wants to let his blind deaf self out and an English Sheep dog that thinks the chickens are cool. They are terrified of bears and the are absolutely on a death watch for mountain lions. They have torn 2 porch cushions in half, they slime the windows, they cant figure out that the kids will run over them with their bikes, they leave their toys in the yard and they want to cuddle every time I sit my happy self down. They watch me constantly and then dont pay attention to what I am doing. I have told them I would rather step on them and break their leg than fall with a basket of laundry! They just look at me like I am their hero. Its maddening really. I am so used to the Pyrenees, that almost human mind and the peaceful sensible nature. Or the Aussie who will do crazy things but never let a fox near the yard. Ive had the animal control to my house 2x in 30 years. Both times Darcy escaped, dug under a neighbors' fence, played with her dogs, went in through her dog door, ate her dogs' food and was asleep on her couch when she got home. They are perpetually 2 years old- irrational beings who dont remember what a dog is supposed to have on his resume!

 

[bruceh]

The problem with keeping disabled birds is there comes a time where you have to ask yourself...where do I draw the line? As season adds to season and chicken life goes along, you may find yourself with this or that bird that doesn't do well and causes more work or trouble, or this bird that doesn't lay but she sure is friendly, or this one that is crippled and has to be kept isolated or the other birds pick on her or whatever.

If you keep birds for years and your goal is to at least not lose money on the venture, somewhere along the way a person needs to decide if you are running a home for misfit toys or actually raising chickens for food? Once started, the sentiment can gain momentum and pretty soon you have a flock that is eating but not producing, causing you more time away from your family because they require extra care or you are dealing with the stress of trying to nurse birds along where you really didn't need added stress in your life.

When OTs advise to cull, they do it with those years behind them and not in front...we know what it takes to be successful at this chicken keeping thing for years upon years, not for a season or two. Keeping chickens doesn't have to be complicated but it quickly becomes so when people get frustrated when this chicken has perpetually bare skin or that one doesn't lay..ever..or this one walks with a limp and WHY??

It may seem heroic or heart felt to "save" this one or that one and you can see that she was of benefit later on...but what about the next one? And the one after that? And when you have whole flocks of crippled, bald, barren chickens~but gee they sure are friendly!~when do you finally just call it what it is...a flock of pets.

We OTs may seem like the baddies and heartless and we just don't know the worth of these cute animals that steal your heart...but we know chickens. We've been doing this thing for years and have found that sentiment gets out of hand and soon you really don't have chickens... you just have animals that are pretty much worthless for anything but to look at and throw money towards.

bee i agree 100% . as i stated as long as the chicken can survive with no real interference from humans. i will let it be. if the bird needs constant attention, nope it goes. if it does not lay it goes. if it is a meat bird it gets eaten. the hen in the picture that is mothering the cx chicks is the crossbeak. she is a good layer.the extra benefit of her mothering is a bonus. the only meat birds i ever kept were the 4 freedom rangers because they were to small to butcher at the time. they do lay ok.

 

[Beekissed]

I've used birds for utility purposes other than laying also....if she is a good broody but not an excellent layer, I let her stay for a season or so until I breed replacements. If she's an excellent broody she stays until she needs a mercy killing...but just one hen can have that spot. I don't need too many broodies. If she's old and dear, as long as she is still laying every other day she stays. I've let an old Leghorn hen hang around because she laid double yolkers for several months before she stopped laying, but she only laid every 3rd day or so.

I do have some sentimentality when it comes to old and dear birds...but I only let my sentiment last for a bit. The current flock won't be evaluated for cull until spring laying season and then there will be some tough decisions. It never feels good to cull my good, old layers who have retired...but if I didn't, I'd have a flock of 50 with only 10 laying before it's all said and done. And there is where that line comes in...who goes? Who stays? Why or why not? If you make it too difficult to make the decisions, then it will always be that everyone stays because you can't pick one out of the bunch of old favorites. It's just not a practical way to raise chickens and I like to think I'm practical and logical about these things.

This is why I have some hard and fast rules for a flock. It simply has to be that way for me because I cannot afford to keep everyone, nor would I want to keep them until they sicken and die. That's simply a waste and they should be utilized in every way, if possible. Ultimately, they have a purpose and that purpose is food.

 

[Mountain Momma]

I've used birds for utility purposes other than laying also....if she is a good broody but not an excellent layer, I let her stay for a season or so until I breed replacements. If she's an excellent broody she stays until she needs a mercy killing...but just one hen can have that spot. I don't need too many broodies. If she's old and dear, as long as she is still laying every other day she stays. I've let an old Leghorn hen hang around because she laid double yolkers for several months before she stopped laying, but she only laid every 3rd day or so.

I do have some sentimentality when it comes to old and dear birds...but I only let my sentiment last for a bit. The current flock won't be evaluated for cull until spring laying season and then there will be some tough decisions. It never feels good to cull my good, old layers who have retired...but if I didn't, I'd have a flock of 50 with only 10 laying before it's all said and done. And there is where that line comes in...who goes? Who stays? Why or why not? If you make it too difficult to make the decisions, then it will always be that everyone stays because you can't pick one out of the bunch of old favorites. It's just not a practical way to raise chickens and I like to think I'm practical and logical about these things.

This is why I have some hard and fast rules for a flock. It simply has to be that way for me because I cannot afford to keep everyone, nor would I want to keep them until they sicken and die. That's simply a waste and they should be utilized in every way, if possible. Ultimately, they have a purpose and that purpose is food.

Someone said that you loose about 10 chickens per year, a little less than 1 per month to attrition. These are things that cannot be helped. I lost a baby the first week, a runaway that did not come back, a murdered one, an old chicken that died. All in 6 months. Am I th only one with attrition for non health reasons?

 

[Beekissed]

I've never lost 10 chickens in one year...ever. The most I've ever lost in one year was 4 and they were all from the same hatchery and all died of heart attacks...just dropped off the roosts. That was just one year out of 36 years. Other than that one year, there are years that go by that I never lose a chicken to anything other than the cull... and that number includes chicks.

I can't imagine how anyone could afford to lose 10 chickens a year that weren't put in the freezer or jar.

 

[Mountain Momma]

I've never lost 10 chickens in one year...ever. The most I've ever lost in one year was 4 and they were all from the same hatchery and all died of heart attacks...just dropped off the roosts. That was just one year out of 36 years. Other than that one year, there are years that go by that I never lose a chicken to anything other than the cull... and that number includes chicks.

I can't imagine how anyone could afford to lose 10 chickens a year that weren't put in the freezer or jar.

Well, I lost the baby because I didnt know the others would pull it out of the wash bucket so that wont happen again, The runaway? Well one came back and one didnt so thats just a trait I cannot worry about, the murdered one- I'll never have another goose- so next year I may have less losses too but I hear about whole flocks decimated for various wild life reasons and why onearth 4 hens would die of heart attacks on the perch I have no idea. Was it all the same night? I do agree if somone needs you to take their chickens be wary about it, but over all I only ended up with three old girls and one died right off the bat the first month. The young ones all bounced back to good health right away and my friends chicken, well the jury is still out. Of course with her sons attachement she is a bonified pet but she might lay again. She is young, an Easter chick so who knows. As for the two old girls Ive got now they do lay regularly, almost every day and they seem happy. They get respect and I would feel weird not letting them have a happy retirement when their prime years were so unfortunate. Granted, I dont want a flock of pets all geriatric and arthritic but I honestly thought that they would die or get killed here and there and I'd be replacing every year anyway.

 

[Beekissed]

Maybe that's why folks are reporting such high losses per year? They are just letting their birds die of old age, predation, and illness. That isn't a managed flock, that's just a flock that's being fed and watered. Flock management denotes that one actually manages something.

Think of the waste of keeping birds until they are old enough to just die from old age. That bird should have been a cull and in the freezer...no waste. Think of the waste of letting predators pick off flocks because someone hasn't provided adequate measures to prevent it...this falls under "management". Some predation cannot be managed but most can...better than most can.

I've been in this a long time and kept birds in the middle of pasture, woodland(like now) and in the middle of town....never had a bird "run away". Usually a bird will not get far from the flock and if they do it's to brood a nest. If they didn't come back, they got eaten. They don't just fly off to join a hippy commune and write songs..they are a flock animal. Never lost a bird in that manner either. That's why I advise to cull lonely hearts and loners...they get picked off first. Do I want to eat that meat or do I want to just let the foxes have it?

Four birds dropping off the nest in one year from the same genetics/hatchery and of the same malady? That's a genetic fault of organ failure. Never happened before, never again...just that one year and all birds were just over a year old. This is why we cull for genetic traits and hardiness in the hens we keep to bear replacement hens...if I had a bird that had a genetic flaw, would I just go ahead and brood those eggs? No...because I am managing my flock instead of just throwing down feed and hoping everyone stays alive and well.

There are certain things experienced flock keepers do to lessen losses and that falls under management. We don't do these things to hear our heads rattle, we do them all for a reason....so we don't lose 10 birds a year that didn't wind up in our freezers. Being successful at raising chickens takes thought and planning and then it takes positive action. When a person does none of these things, is it any wonder they aren't successful?

I don't replace all my hens every year...if they are good layers and have the traits I want, I keep them for as long as possible. My last flock was 18 mo. old, 5,6, and 7 yr olds. I currently have a remnant of that same flock in my coop tonight and they are 6 yrs old and some are almost 3 yrs old. If they resume laying after winter slow down, I will continue to feed them unless I see signs of too old age, then they will be culled for the freezer....before they die of old age and are wasted.

 

[normanack]

Hey OTs -- pecking order question. Your knowledge is appreciated!

My flock has a fairly clear pecking order, which seems to be based on who brooded with whom (and therefore age -- oldest brooderful are top dogs) and then size (little = low).

But one hen, as far as I can tell, isn't even in the pecking order.

She's small (only two bantams are smaller).
She lives happily amongst the whole flock, not sticking with any particular birds.
She sleeps alone -- as far as I can tell, by choice.

And the part that weirds me out: nobody picks on her. Low birds get pecked. High birds do the pecking. But nobody pecks her, and she doesn't peck anyone else.

Am I just not picking up the right clues to figure her out?

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[cubalaya]

10 chickens a year! how many do you have ? 500? a predator may kill a couple, you may lose a couple to unknown disease or genetic attrition but i would feel like i wasn't doing a very good job of chicken management if i had losses like that. when i first got my cubalayas they were a little small and inbred as a breed as a whole in the states. from what i have seen of cubalayas in cuba they no longer exist as a breed there directly due to communism. crossing strains and colors has worked for the most part in giving them some hybrid vigor and getting the size up. they have always been good layers. now i am breeding more for type and color. will try to grade some asil, thai, and shamo into them over the next 7 to 14 years and choose for size, type, color, egg laying, carcass size, ability to brood, and tameness. the cubalaya should be very people friendly and tame. they are a very healthy bird and able to forage a good amount of food for themselves. their meat is gourmet but would like to see more of it on their bones. they look very good in your yard.