Chickens for 10-20 years or more? Pull up a rockin' chair and lay some wisdom on us!

[Fred's Hens]

Walt (Fowlman01) would be of help in this discussion.

Heritage birds, true to breed type, SOP type, purely line bred for 75 years type birds are very, very hard to find. There may be less than a few hundred true New Hampshires in existence. Some of us Old Timers (including Robert Blosl) even doubt the true Delaware even exists. There may be less than a few thousand true bred Rhode Island Reds alive. The true to breed, rose combed Rhode Island White may number fewer than 200 even in existence. The true bred Columbian Rock is literally rarer than hen's teeth. One of the frequent posters here, Al, may know for sure, but how many true bred Cornish are there?

The hatcheries provide a service in producing literally millions of chicks each year, while the heritage breeders sometimes only produce hundreds of chicks, nationwide, depending on the specific breed. In a nutshell, there simply aren't the number of true heritage bred fowl even available to supply the number of people who might desire them.

But, even if these true heritage birds were more readily available, would most backyarders really want a chick that takes 10 weeks to even feather out? Would they really want birds that take 8 months to come to point of lay? Would they really want birds that may take forever and day to mature? Would they really want the slow growth rate and loooooooooong feeding period that it takes to grow out many of the true bred, heritage birds? What would most of these folks even do with such birds, beyond the first generation? It's not as if 99% of such folks would breed them faithfully and true to type anyhow.

These are sincere questions.

 

[galanie]

You're absolutely right, Fred. Most people I see wanting "true" pure LF Cornish want them in order to cross them with something else. Then yell when they can't find anyone to sell them some.

 

[just me]

Quote from Fred's Hens: (Had to copy and paste, for some reason the "quote" button wouldn't work" But, even if these true heritage birds were more readily available, would most backyarders really want a chick that takes 10 weeks to even feather out? Would they really want birds that take 8 months to come to point of lay? Would they really want birds that may take forever and day to mature? Would they really want the slow growth rate and loooooooooong feeding period that it takes to grow out many of the true bred, heritage birds? What would most of these folks even do with such birds, beyond the first generation? It's not as if 99% of such folks would breed them faithfully and true to type anyhow.



These are sincere questions.

With me, when I see "heritage" I think "old timey". All I want are chickens like the ones we had when I was growing up. The kind where you get up in the morning, open the hen house door, feed them once a day and get up the eggs. Every now and then, a hen would go missing and show up a while later with her babies.

The kind where you don't worry about how long it takes them to lay because there's always some laying, since you have chickens ranging from a few months old to a few years old.

The kind where you always have some extra roos to cull, or a hen that's not worth her food, or just plain nasty so you have a nice fresh chicken dinner once in a while. (The kind of chicken you can taste!)

That's why I love this thread and am so thankful Bee has decided to keep it alive. I had began to think those chickens no longer existed until I found this thread. Now, I know the ball's in my court. As a result of this thread, I honestly believe I can experiment with hatchery chickens until I find the breeds I like best, practice good husbandry methods, cull for good genes and by the time I retire, I should be well on my way to having those old timey chicken, all thanks to you old timers!!

Thanks again,
Julie

 

[just me]

Sorry my last post is so wonkers, for some reason I'm having trouble with the site. I can't quote other posts, and after submitting mine, it looked NOTHING like when I wrote it, and I can't figure out how to edit it!!

Julie

 

[Beekissed]

Quote:
I don't ever have sour crop issues and I rarely provide grit. At my old place there were plenty of avenues for grit unless the ground was frozen for a long time. I did buy grit for one long, cold winter for this reason and for the reason that I was using a more than 50% whole grain mix that winter. That was some years ago. Recently, while raising young CX on land that has no grit opporunities in the meadows, I went down to the holler and scooped some grit from the bank, much like your mama, and dumped it in a pan of wood ashes so they could dust and get grit in the same place. It worked rather well.

I do think having adequate grit in their diet is important in avoiding this type of thing because, if the digestion in the gizzard is slowed by lack of grinding materials, the food in the crop and in the next chamber is also slowed, which leaves it to sit and possibly ferment.

 

[just me]

Quote from Fred's Hens: (Had to copy and paste, for some reason the "quote" button wouldn't work"

But, even if these true heritage birds were more readily available, would most backyarders really want a chick that takes 10 weeks to even feather out? Would they really want birds that take 8 months to come to point of lay? Would they really want birds that may take forever and day to mature? Would they really want the slow growth rate and loooooooooong feeding period that it takes to grow out many of the true bred, heritage birds? What would most of these folks even do with such birds, beyond the first generation? It's not as if 99% of such folks would breed them faithfully and true to type anyhow. These are sincere questions."


With me, when I see "heritage" I think "old timey". All I want are chickens like the ones we had when I was growing up. The kind where you get up in the morning, open the hen house door, feed them once a day and get up the eggs. Every now and then, a hen would go missing and show up a while later with her babies. The kind where you don't worry about how long it takes them to lay because there's always some laying, since you have chickens ranging from a few months old to a few years old. The kind where you always have some extra roos to cull, or a hen that's not worth her food, or just plain nasty so you have a nice fresh chicken dinner once in a while. (The kind of chicken you can taste!) That's why I love this thread and am so thankful Bee has decided to keep it alive. I had began to think those chickens no longer existed until I found this thread. Now, I know the ball's in my court. As a result of this thread, I honestly believe I can experiment with hatchery chickens until I find the breeds I like best, practice good husbandry methods, cull for good genes and by the time I retire, I should be well on my way to having those old timey chicken, all thanks to you old timers!!


Thanks again, Julie


I know, duplicate post, trying to make it so that it makes sense, I can't edit that post.

Sorry,

Julie

 

[Ridgerunner]

I have been breeding birds for a very long time. Not chickens actual different types of birds. My grandmah had been grooming me for it for a long time as they were "pets" and the chickens were not. lol. Her reasoning for needing help with the numerous birds and huge cages.

I actually do have a question, It's about the sour crop, in the previous post.
When I was growing up I noticed when we cleaned out the gizzards of the chickens that they had a lot of pebbles and small rocks within. Just recently when I culled my first, I noticed the same, She had pebbles and fish tank river rock (from one of my cleaned out tank areas I assume)

When some of our birds came down with sour crop we made a trip to the river in the Old Jeep. Spend a day crawfish hunting, swiming, coconut finding and all (good memories there) We always came back with two buckens full. One filled with river pebbles from the shore and another from wherever she told me to get it IN the river. There was a difference in size. But it wasn't by much IMHO. (from what I remember)
Either way it cured the sour crop problem for the birds and we would find the wild chickens in the buckets if we left them open. Here in florida, The "grit" they sell for Birds is SAND. :/ Most definitely NOT what I was used to. But I rarely run into the sour crop problem with the birds using the sand. I guess, for finches,parakeets and love birds, sand is the equivalent of tiny rocks?

I know I've made this really long, but confession time, I have not bothered to buy my chickens grit or oyster shells.(both suggested Ill admit) The yard I live in is pebbled and I got Sand everywhere.

Do the OTs give grit to their flocks? How often do you notice and cull for the sour crop in your flocks and how can I avoid it?? (if possible??)

I’ll match a long post with a longer post.

Some interesting observations and questions. I don't know why your Grandmah had you gather rocks like that to cure it. I don't deal with any birds other than chickens and an occasional turkey. I've heard that some exotic birds have gizzards and some don't, but I don’t have specific experience with that.

If you look at how a chicken’s digestive system works, chickens do not use grit in the crop to grind up the food. The gizzard is where that happens. If they don’t have grit and they eat certain “foods”, they can get an impacted gizzard. That’s where the stuff does not get ground up, it balls up, and blocks the exit from the gizzard. I can see where that could maybe back up and give the symptoms of a sour crop.

Things like long pieces of grass or such, but maybe plastic, rubber, or something else. When I search on this, I usually come up with emu instead of chickens, but occasionally someone mentions it happened to chickens. Sometimes they eat so much sand that the gizzard or crop gets blocked with that. Some of the articles I’ve read about it appear to be legitimate studies where experts cut them open to actually see what is happening inside, not just somebody seeing something and guessing this is what happened.

An impacted crop is where stuff gets stuck in the crop and can’t make it out. That’s different from an impacted gizzard but can have much the same results.

When chickens free range, they usually don’t eat long pieces of grass or other vegetation. The plant is still growing and they bite off chunks that are reasonably small. There is a lot less chance of those getting balled up than really long pieces of grass. So if they eat living vegetation, the odds of them getting an impacted crop from that are pretty low. I don’t know for a fact but I think grit has more to do with the impacted gizzard than long pieces of grass.

I don’t know that I’ve ever seen a hen with a sour crop. I had one once that was vomiting up clear fluid but her crop was empty. With an impacted crop, it would not have been empty. I suspect she had a blockage in her gizzard and was slowly starving to death, maybe from something strange she ate and could not grind up. Maybe she picked up a screw or nail and poked a hole in her gizzard when she tried to grind that up. I put her out of her misery without cutting her open so I really don’t know.

I’ve found some strange things in a gizzard when I process them. One interesting thing was a plum pit. That will give you an idea of what they can swallow. Eventually it would have been ground up and digested. It depends on their size, baby chicks needing grit smaller than adults, but the largest sized rocks I fine in adults are about the size of a green pea. Most are smaller. They can even use coarse sand as grit. Those larger rocks will gradually get worn down and as they become sand and get flushed out of their system. How hard those pebbles they use are determines how long it takes for that grit to wear down. Granite lasts a long time. Softer limestone doesn’t last nearly as long.

I give grit to chicks in the brooder, starting when they are about three days old. I take dirt from the run and put it in with them. That’s not just for grit. It also introduces any diseases and probiotics the parents have so the chicks can work on the immunities they’ll need when they hit the ground. But I think it helps set their digestive system up the way it is supposed to work. I’ve never had a case of pasty butt since I started doing that.

If your ground has bits of sand and gravel in it, your birds will get grit. They’ll also eat some dirt to pick up minerals. If you live where the ground does not have any sand or gravel in it, maybe in a dried up gumbo muck like we had in South Louisiana, you might need to throw some grit in there. Any gravel will do as long as it has pieces the size of a green pea or smaller, creek beds, gravel driveways or even a bag of pea gravel. Whatever you can find.

Oyster shell is not grit. It is too soft to grind up some of the harder things they eat. It gets ground up instead. Plus the chicken’s digestive system has acid in it, just like yours. The acid will dissolve the oyster shell.

I have no idea why your Grandmah taught you to get the rocks like that and feed them to the birds. She may not have known why it works either, just that it was what you were supposed to do, but there was probably something going on that helped with those specific varieties of birds. It won’t hurt chickens either and who knows? It might help.

 

[just me]

I give up!!

 

[Ridgerunner]

I give up!!

Frustrating ain't it? You might try contacting a moderator by reporting your post (hit the red flag at the bottom left) and see if they can help.

 

[just me]

Yes, VERY!! I've got to run for now, maybe things will straignten themselves out!!