Chickens for 10-20 years or more? Pull up a rockin' chair and lay some wisdom on us!

[normanack]

You're really welcome. The novice is said to constantly criss and cross and "introduce new blood" and this scattered approach just leads nowhere. What the old pros, who I've learned from, just think differently from the novice breeder, who tends to think of breeding with a half dozen cock birds and 20 hens in hoping for the best in a flock breeding attempt.

First, it is too expensive to feed that many birds. Second, remember, "go slow, go small, and go down the middle." In other words, all you need to move forward each year is that one great cockerel (and another for backup) and those 3 or 4 great pullets. That's it. Quality, not quantity.

Bob Blosl's website is a great resource, as is being mentored by someone like NYReds, Fowlman01, and a whole new generation of BYC awesome folks, like Kathy, Matt, Jeremy. Too many names to list.

That I don't need, and even shouldn't, start with a lot of birds is a great relief. Couldn't afford it in the first place, and don't know if the local market would be able to absorb hundreds of chicks in the second.

Meanwhile I've been fretting that two of my three have faults even I can see -- crooked comb on the cockerel and not-so-hot coloring on one of the hens. But all three are healthy, good-tempered birds that are -- as far as I can tell -- not far off of the breed standard for build (type?) and feathering.

Oh no, I think at night, I can't start with faulty birds. But I'm guessing a lot of people do just that, if they don't have access to well-bred, high-quality stock?

 

[galanie]

Fred,
Not sure about that , but I used one cock bird in making buff Silkies for 5 generations. I was lucky enough that my Silkies were very long lived. I had also kept a few in bred to the good females in the third generation. I then crossed those lines. Kept getting better and better.. It only works if you are keeping what you SEE! None of this , "this is Suzies" chick, stuff." This way the genotype ( What's hidden) starts to resemble the Phenontype ( What you see.) The minute you keep a bird that does not resemble what you envision, you are dead in the water..as they are inbred too, and will muddy up your line.

Fingers not working again......darned low pressure!

If I'm reading this right, you bred each generation of females back to the same male. Then at the same time you did multiple brother-sister matings. This way all the "hidden" things in their genes showed up. So from then on you were able to breed what you saw. Nothing was really "hidden" any more since you'd hatched enough from these breedings to pretty much see any hidden faults.

Did I get that right?
Oh, and do silkies really taste good? hehe.

And Bee: Go on and whoop and holler! I've had my eye on Delawares for over a year now. But it'll have to wait.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Oh no, I think at night, I can't start with faulty birds. But I'm guessing a lot of people do just that, if they don't have access to well-bred, high-quality stock?

Starting with excellent birds saves a lot of frustration and wasted years of mediocre results. There is nothing like starting out with a trio of the finest birds from the finest lines in the nation. That, however, is not the hand that everyone gets dealt. This is show season. You could attend any number of shows, ie, Columbus National next week, and buy a trio of awesome birds. They are amazingly available and not all that expensive. You'll have to decide what you might do, can do, are willing to do and able to do.

But, if your goal is simply breed good and better birds each year, over the passing years, on a small scale then one's starting point isn't quite as critical. This is a hobby afterall.

 

[thedragonlady]

If I'm reading this right, you bred each generation of females back to the same male. Then at the same time you did multiple brother-sister matings. This way all the "hidden" things in their genes showed up. So from then on you were able to breed what you saw. Nothing was really "hidden" any more since you'd hatched enough from these breedings to pretty much see any hidden faults.
Did I get that right?
Oh, and do silkies really taste good? hehe.
And Bee: Go on and whoop and holler! I've had my eye on Delawares for over a year now. But it'll have to wait.

Sarah,

I was lucky enough to find a White male Silkie who had a cream cast to his hackle. He had SUPER type.Named him Lester. I then found a little gold Cochin x heaven knows what pullet, who had about 3 crest feathers.She did not have Silkie feathering, but she was GOLD.

I bred her to Lester, and was amazed to get Silkies of good type with good gold top color, but dark blue under fluff. I kept 4 of the pullets, and bred them back to Lester. Their daughters were also bred back to him, etc for 5 generations. The color cleared by about the third generation, and I had showable birds. I also started getting recessive, ie; PURE white chicks, from this program. These were winners, with huge crests, and great type.

After the 5th generation, I was able to use a few of the Buff males, and they bred true for Buff, as well as throwing recessive pure whites.

Why did this work out? Lester was a gift to me from Bob Cook in Ohio, a longtime Silkie breeder, who had him on traders' row at the Ohio National one year.He was quite inbred, and out came the creamy hackle and saddle feathers. Just what I was looking for, but a cull to Bob. The little pullet I started with must have had strong buff color breeding behind her too, and combined with the cream gene in Lester. By inbreeding to Lester for 5 generations , my Buffs were genetically all carrying 50% white blood for type also. Of course, plain old dumb luck entered into it too !

 

[galanie]

Sarah,

I was lucky enough to find a White male Silkie who had a cream cast to his hackle. He had SUPER type.Named him Lester. I then found a little gold Cochin x heaven knows what pullet, who had about 3 crest feathers.She did not have Silkie feathering, but she was GOLD.

I bred her to Lester, and was amazed to get Silkies of good type with good gold top color, but dark blue under fluff. I kept 4 of the pullets, and bred them back to Lester. Their daughters were also bred back to him, etc for 5 generations. The color cleared by about the third generation, and I had showable birds. I also started getting recessive, ie; PURE white chicks, from this program. These were winners, with huge crests, and great type.

After the 5th generation, I was able to use a few of the Buff males, and they bred true for Buff, as well as throwing recessive pure whites.

Why did this work out? Lester was a gift to me from Bob Cook in Ohio, a longtime Silkie breeder, who had him on traders' row at the Ohio National one year.He was quite inbred, and out came the creamy hackle and saddle feathers. Just what I was looking for, but a cull to Bob. The little pullet I started with must have had strong buff color breeding behind her too, and combined with the cream gene in Lester. By inbreeding to Lester for 5 generations , my Buffs were genetically all carrying 50% white blood for type also. Of course, plain old dumb luck entered into it too !

Ok now you're giving away your secrets! hehe.

Would Lester have been what is considered "pre-potent?" I.E. able to throw great offspring no matter the hen? Or do I have even the definition of that all wrong? I don't think it was luck at all. You knew what you needed and you found it. Well finding it was the lucky part.

Oh and I see now that you didn't do brother to sister matings on the side like I thought. You waited till you had some decent buff cocks and bred to the 5th generation hens.

And PS - Thank you for not going into DD/ee+ qq/OMG+ and SH/it+ genotypes.

 

[normanack]

Starting with excellent birds saves a lot of frustration and wasted years of mediocre results.  There is nothing like starting out with a trio of the finest birds from the finest lines in the nation.  That, however, is not the hand that everyone gets dealt.  This is show season.  You could attend any number of shows, ie, Columbus National next week, and buy a trio of awesome birds.  They are amazingly available and not all that expensive.  You'll have to decide what you might do, can do, are willing to do and able to do.

But, if your goal is simply breed good and better birds each year, over the passing years, on a small scale then one's starting point isn't quite as critical.  This is a hobby afterall.

Oh, I so wish I could start with some proven, excellent birds. The breed is so new, though, and the pool of serious breeders so small, that I don't know if it's even possible (let alone with limited funds).

 

[Beekissed]

I know I don't know squat about chickens, and I certainly don't breed, but what I have noticed is that chicken biology strongly follows human biology. So it would stand to reason in my mind, that large yolks would be the same as large for gestational babies, don't you think? And so I would think there would be problems not only delivering, or hatching in this case, but that the nutritional status would be compromised as well in some way. Think about LGA babies and problems with hyperglycemia. Sorry for poking my two cents in. I'm probably overthinking this anyway.

That might work if the yolk was the actual baby, but it's just the nutrition for the baby. My thinking is, more nutrients available should make for a healthier chick. But then...I've never incubated chicks and have always let the hen do all that, so I've never intensely studied up on the development of chicks in the egg. I've tried to research the larger yolk in regards to chick development and came up with nothing. I guess what I'm trying to find out is, if the nutrition level that produces that large of a yolk would also transfer over to producing a sturdier/healthier than average chick. I've found numerous studies that indicates that chick health and viability is a direct result of the nutritional status of the mother~as in humans~and was wondering if yolk size was a direct result of increased nutrition in the hen or if it's just a pleasant side effect that will have no bearing on the chicks born from that egg/hen.

But the chick having difficulty hatching or developing in an average egg with a large yolk is definitely crossing my mind, so you could be right on this one...but I can't find anything about that.

Will that work with any large winter squash ..like cushaw squash. The produce stand shut down and called me I got free a trunk full of pumpkins and cushaw for the chickens.
Also I thought chickens couldn't eat moldy food wouldn't the pumpkins be moldy after sitting all that time?

Mine always have a faint dusting of black speckles on the outside but nothing serious. When I kept them in the cellar they got too moldy and developed black areas with green fuzzy mold~not good, had to be tossed...then I kept them outside with good airflow and just the sprinkles. The chooks, sheep and cattle all ate them without any ill effects but I wouldn't have fed the extremely moldy ones, no.

 

[delisha]

You can always conduct a study Bee..or someone can. Hatch out half a batch on FF and half not, and let the chicks and progress of them make a decision. I would not think yolk size would make that much difference in room to grow, however it might make larger chicks than before FF, and possibly healthier ones. I guess I will find out next spring if the chicks are bigger, however I do not have any weights on chicks before FF.

 

[delisha]

Happy day today..all the cockerels and ducks are in the freezer. What a quiet yard I have. The hens are gingerly walking around, still looking aware and cautious.

 

[Beekissed]

You can always conduct a study Bee..or someone can. Hatch out half a batch on FF and half not, and let the chicks and progress of them make a decision. I would not think yolk size would make that much difference in room to grow, however it might make larger chicks than before FF, and possibly healthier ones. I guess I will find out next spring if the chicks are bigger, however I do not have any weights on chicks before FF.

Me neither and I don't have the capabilities here to split a flock and do experiments. I guess if I get a broody in the spring I'll know...