Chickens for 10-20 years or more? Pull up a rockin' chair and lay some wisdom on us!

[seminolewind]

perchie.girl :

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Rabbits also eat their cecals (night feces) which is important for their gut health. And one reason for gut stasis in rabbits is not enough water. I did not know that horses ate manure, and only recently learned that chickens do that. I had seen them pecking at their poops, just didn't realize that they were doing that for a good reason. So having enough water and eating feces are 2 ways to avoid crop impaction? Sorry that I'm sounding so stupid, I really am trying to learn and do not mean to be annoying.

I think it has more to do with maintaining a healthy digestive tract. I still don't know about crop impaction. I have never experienced it. I dont consider myself an OT. I am still learning about poultry. I feed Alfalfa to my guineas. just a little. they seem to only go for the leaves. I would hesitate to feed them grass hay. Alfalfa is a Legume and pretty full of minerals. Just look at alfalfa sprouts.... I bet those would be good for the chickens too.

And you are totally NOT annoying. The hard part is there is different answers depending on your environment the feed you feed.... the quality of the Hay available..... the latitude.... in rainy environments Alfalfa is not an easy crop to raise. It molds too easily. In my environment its very dry we get only about ten inches of rain a year. It takes forty acres to feed a horse and you still have to supplement with hay. The Greens I give them are much appreciated. I even tried using Alfalfa pellets wetted to a mush.... they didnt care for them.​

Well, I guess I won't be kissing my horse on the lips anymore!

 

[wyododge]

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I absolutely LOVE mine... The best way I have found to prevent leaking is to NOT use milk jugs... I use the large gallon gatorade jugs and just use large wire ties to attach them to the fencing... To put the hole in the bottom of a jug, I couldn't find a drill bit so I heated up the end of a scissor blade and put it into the plastic a little bit and then spun it around to create a perfect hole.. this not only put a hole but it shaves off any extra plastic so no clean up necessary... If the hole it not big enough, I do it again but a little bit further.. Always go a tad bit smaller than you need it because you can always make the hole bigger... Unfortunately, you can't make the hole smaller if it's too big...

The biggest question I have about them, with going into winter, how do I keep the jugs/nipples from freezing!

Goddess

First off, I am one of the guilty ones. Someone insulted a lady, and I kinda flew off. I was disrespectful and I apologize. Just old fashioned, and still have a lot to learn I guess. (read last line...)

Yes they do leak a bit, more of a splash from the girls 'tickling' the nipples. We put a lid for a 55 gallon drum under ours. For the price, effort, and ease of filling, IMO there is no better method of watering them. Maybe the cups but they freeze so not an option for us. We use a 5 gallon bucket. You can see pics of our set up on our page. I got pretty serious about the water issue as I am away from home for 2 weeks at a time and I did not want, under any circumstances, my wife carrying water in -35*. I just filled that tank last week, it was only half empty. That was three months of trouble free, unfrozen water. Took about 30 minutes to unroll the hoses, fill the tank, drain and roll the hoses back up. Worth every penny of the $10 to keep it thawed a month, $25 for the pump, and $60 for the stock tank heater. Turns out the system really works well in the summer too. Chalk that one up to dumb luck though.

Regarding crop impaction and colic. I was told that in their wild state, there generally was never a drastic change in food source and, although migratory, water was the main goal of migration, food being the motivation. So, with that understanding, we always tried to keep the food source for all our animals diverse but never made drastic changes. I have NO evidence to back it up, but what makes sense to me is bacteria development in the gut would have to adjust to it's food source as well. Drastic changes in diet would lead to more inefficient bacterial breakdown, which would lead to sour gut, and eventually digestive troubles, and possibly failure. One of the main reasons we raise our chickens 'dirty' is to take advantage of a naturally diverse bacteria source.

Everyone always tells me how horses can not just eat 24% alfalfa, as they will get colic. Thats absolute horse puckey. Our horses lived and thrived on 3rd cutting hay exclusively for years and years.

Another thing to consider is that there are fewer foods naturally available in the winter than the summer. In addition, there are only certain bacteria that are readily available in the winter than the summer. Generally speaking winter feeding is dry and bland. As are the bacteria available. On might be very wise to consider the effects of feeding rich, green, leafy (summer) foods at a time that there is not an appropriate bacteria source for digestion. Again, I have ABSOLUTELY no documentable, or publishable (is that even a word) evidence to back up this philosophy. It is just what I have observed, and not wanting to buck the world god has created, do my best to confine myself to its splendid beauty and diversity. As stated before, I am not smart enough to understand the plan, so I just work with what I was given, what I see, and what I think God is trying to tell me through his many glorious and remarkable creations.

So as a rule of thumb, I would never just throw a bail or leaf of alfalfa into a coop, if the chickens have never seen it. I would start with a small handful, then work up to a leaf that stays in a chicken wire feeder attached to the wall that you just drop a leaf into. FWIW, I don't even change from 16% to 20% layer ration quickly. I at minimum do a 50-50 mix. There will be those who say well "you throw table scraps out and they are wildly different then their grazing diet". To which I answer so does an occasional June Bug snack, it would not be considered a main ration. Besides as a rule, OUR diets are pretty similar anyway, just rotated, so they essentially just have a rotational snack every couple days.

Just my observations, and are probably worth what you paid for them.

If you are looking for credibility, keep looking. I don't have any, and would certainly not tell that I do. That would be boastful. I have been around chickens for about 10 years, but this is my first flock. I have raised cows, horses, and a few other critters for about 10 years, and thats where some of my education (bloody noses, broken fingers, and twisted ankles) comes from. But to be truthful, most of my education comes from shutting my mouth (sometimes not quite quick enough), opening my eyes and ears and standing still, watching Gods plan in action, and figuring out how I can NOT mess it up.

If I could only listen, watch and hear... I would learn.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

I want to suggest a couple of points. The first on hay. I can see how it being a dried grass it could be harder for the chicken to break up small pieces than fresh growing greenery. Chickens almost always prefer the newest growth to older plants. As far as using it for nesting material, I often use the long dried grass mowed from the field(same thing just not baled). I've also used straw, shavings, leaves and my favorite is the excelsior mats from Randall Burkey, EggCartons.com and a few other online poultry supply places. I have one flock that doesn't seem to like them and tears them up but another flock that keeps them nice and clean. I don't see birds picking at their nesting material as a food source.

Another point is controversy over heat and ventilation in coops, which always crops up this time of year. When opinions differ, I believe those opposing points of view stem more from the size of housing, concentration of birds per sq. ft./cu. ft. and the geographic/climate area that makes up the experience of the person making statements. What I'm trying to say is, if there are opposing points of view, it doesn't mean one is right and one is wrong. I've worked with birds in the Missouri off and on since the 50s and in the tropics both at high elevation and in lowlands. The same information doesn't necessarily apply across the board. We often have humidity in the 80-90% range year round. That's a problem at -5 degrees before you add the moisture from birds. With a high concentration of birds in a moderate size building, my requirements are going to be way different than someone with even colder temps but with low humidity and 6 birds in a small coop.
Some people's experience is predominately large barn type housing, others a handfull of birds in small coops and still others poultry houses with hundreds to thousands of birds. That diversity of experience coming from areas as diverse as Alaska, Florida, Minnesota, Colorado, California, Australia or the UK is going to obviously bring with it just as many diverse points of view.

ETA
Oh and by the way, I haven't worked with delicate birds from a temperature point of view but I don't believe in adding heat of any kind and the more ventilation the better.

 

[TinyChickenLady]

I got another question!!
I went out to lock up last night and noticed my head roo is starting to get frostbite on his combs and wattles.
I applied some petroleum jelly.

Is there anything that works better? I was thinking of using Bagbalm...
Suggestions?

 

[NYREDS]

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I can answer one question: Why people get chickens before the coop - because the feed store has them and by the time we get the coop built they will have sold out for another year. Who KNEW chicks could be mail-ordered? I just learned that last week. Chicken book? Do they have those?

Contrary to popular belief it is advisable to get a coop first and all the nessesary items before getting chicks, be well prepared for getting them. It works easier than bringing home birds and then not having the set-up to care for them, rushing around trying to get all the info you need and pretty much doing it backwards. After all how many post have you seen that say I have new fluffy butt's from the feed store now what do I do ???. It pays to be organized, have all your ducks in a row, have some inkling as to waht is invovled and then get chicks, it's just the way smart folks do it.

It's the only logical way to begin any undertaking. You may be able to learn to swim by being thrown into the deep end of the pool but most swimming instruction programs start at the shallow end.

 

[Wynette]

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I'd love to hear what the "OT's" have to say about this, as I'm curious. I'm not a newbie, not an OT. Still learning. I think if I ever get to a place where I think I know it all about poulty, it's probably time for me to bow out. Anyway - I've tried Bag Balm, Vaseline, and even a prescription cream for burn victims - none of them worked for me. I hope someone has an answer other than "heat your coop."

 

[Clay Mudd]

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Quoted for emphasis.

 

[TinyChickenLady]

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I'd love to hear what the "OT's" have to say about this, as I'm curious. I'm not a newbie, not an OT. Still learning. I think if I ever get to a place where I think I know it all about poulty, it's probably time for me to bow out. Anyway - I've tried Bag Balm, Vaseline, and even a prescription cream for burn victims - none of them worked for me. I hope someone has an answer other than "heat your coop."

Yea, I really don't want to have to heat the coop if I don't have to. I thought that might make it worse since it might cause condensation. I don't have a heat light right now and I'm afraid a regular white light might cause them to get day and night confused. My Dad tried that once and when I went in later, 5 were up and acting like it was morning...

 

[NYREDS]

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Bag Balm is petrolium jelly based, it won't do anything that Vaseline won't do in this situation.
There is, in my experience, nothing you can rub on a comb to keep it from freezing. It seems odd that you'd be experiencing this so early in what has thus far been a very mild winter. It may be that humidity is a factor. If your coop isn't well ventilated moisture builds up & this can contribute to frozen combs.
That said, birds with tall single combs living in colder climates often suffer frostbite. If you can, move the affected bird into a smaller coop where body heat will keep his comb from freezing. I have even known of people putting such a bird in a box overnight toprotect them from frostbite.
I have some Andalusians [very large combs] & have had to resign myself to the fact I can only show cockerels; my cock birds always lose points from their combs in the winter.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

Quote:
It seems odd that you'd be experiencing this so early in what has thus far been a very mild winter. It may be that humidity is a factor. If your coop isn't well ventilated moisture builds up & this can contribute to frozen combs.
That said, birds with tall single combs living in colder climates often suffer frostbite. If you can, move the affected bird into a smaller coop where body heat will keep his comb from freezing. I have even known of people putting such a bird in a box overnight toprotect them from frostbite.
I have some Andalusians [very large combs] & have had to resign myself to the fact I can only show cockerels; my cock birds always lose points from their combs in the winter.

I've been told by many an OT that rubbing vaseline on the comb will work. Most of those people were from milder climates than mine or had birds with smaller combs. I try to imagine if I was outside at 0 without gloves, would my hands be warmer dry or covered with vaseline. I doubt there would be a difference. I think there might be some help but more from masaging the comb improving circulation than from the coating.

I'm fairly new to big combed birds but the last couple of years were harsh and I only had a couple mediteranean hens with slight damage. Ancona and Minorca hens combs are pretty big. My buildings are very well ventilated.
This is my first winter with Penedesencas and combs and wattles are so huge(even though I don't believe in heat) I'm considering confining the roosters to small units overnight and aiming ceramic IR heaters at the head area above the roost on those nights below 10 degrees.

Edited for spelling