Chickens for 10-20 years or more? Pull up a rockin' chair and lay some wisdom on us!

[loanwizard]

Beekissed, could you tell us the post #? I put my birds in a row of cages I call death row for a few days. Hens, no eggs, butcher. Excess roosters, butcher when I have the time and inclination. I have to be in a killing mood. We have 4 teenagers.... usually doesn't take long

Anyhow, I have killed hens thinking they are done laying only to discover egg masses after it is too late. If it entails searching chicken butt.... refer to above and I will be in the mood eventually... I would like another method for knowing if an old lady is laying or not.

 

[babymakes6]

I agree...both are breeds I'd never own in the first place...at least, not after learning their true nature. I once got a couple of pups that were Newfie/Visla cross~which I agreed to take because I was hoping the Newfie would outweigh the Visla) and found they could not be trained off of chickens with the normal training methods, so I promptly removed the problem.

All my dogs are lab or lab mixes and most people think they won't guard nor will they bond with a flock and they will most definitely kill chickens~but they didn't and they don't. The one I have now will actually mourn like crazy if a chick dies and will carry it around in his mouth and keep trying to put it back in the coop with the others. I have to dispose of them where he can't go and bring them back because he will do this for days...endless pacing, whining, carrying a stinking, long-dead chick around in his mouth and keep trying to get me to take it, make it live, make it go back into the flock. Makes himself~and me~miserable.

Some breeds just don't have the nurturing nature that it takes to care for a prey species despite their predatory instincts...but it isn't always breed specific and the GP aren't the only dogs that can fill that bill. Many people on here are using mutts and non-typical livestock dogs to guard their flocks and it works wonderfully~and didn't cost them a dime or the acquisition of an additional dog. You only hear about the ones that go horribly wrong and it's usually dogs that have received absolutely no training around livestock and who live indoors all day, only to find a delightful new exercise toy outside that squeaks when you bite into it.

We have a 9-year-old Golden Retriever that is an outside dog (too much hair for inside). I can let her out all day long and know she will ignore the chickens, ducks, and turkeys, while they are free-ranging too. A few months ago, one of the turkeys flew into her pen and she killed it. I can't blame her-she was in her pen, and it went in, but if she is out, she leaves them all alone.

 

[babymakes6]

I found it from a different thread:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/396854/how-can-you-tell-if-a-hen-is-no-longer-laying/10

I've tried all the suggested methods for determining this and have found all but one faulty. The fingers between the pelvic bone is all relative...is she a big ol' gal anyway? If she is, she just may have a wide set pelvis. I've butchered a few good layers due to this whole pelvis issue.

Same with the coloring of the legs, beek, comb, wattles...you name it, color means nothing sometimes. Or sometimes you have a black hen with black legs and then where are you at with the yellow color?

If your lipstick doesn't actually lay but still likes to nest and pretend, you could find lipstick on any egg that was already in the nest and she has sat upon.

Loose and moist vent? Been there, done that. Butchered a gal that had a dry and normal vent, narrow pelvis, pale legs , etc. only to find her full of eggs in all stages of growth.

The only foolproof way I've found is to actually glove up after the gals have hit the roost and do a quick bend over and cough exam.....

A finger up the vent should be able to palpate next day's egg. If you can't feel it, she isn't a daily layer. If that is alright for you, then mark the ones that have an egg. Count your eggs the next day....do the numbers equal?

Next night, do the digital exam again. The marked gals should have another egg and you may find some that weren't marked that have one....these may be your sporadic layers. The gals that have eggs two days in a row are likely your steady layers. I cull all birds that do not have an egg in the canal for two nights in a row. I want daily layers and I'll even take one that lays every other day....but not one that is more sporadic than that.

You must also take into account the time of year....you don't want to cull during moult. Plenty of good layers slow down a little during moult and in the winter months~this is okay with me, they deserve a rest. The best time to cull for laying is in peak laying times when all hens should be producing~Feb/Mar through June/July.

 

[Beekissed]

Darn it! I don't know the post number....

Okay, okay...I'll tell it again but I'm just gonna get laughed at again.

This is the most complete explanation of the method...an earlier one wasn't quite as thorough but as this is the last time I'm going to talk about doing rectal exams on chickens, I'll put the entire messy business on the page.

I take each hen off the roost at night and gently insert a finger into her vent...if she is laying the next day you should be able to palpate an egg coming down.

No, it doesn't hurt them, it is only a part of your finger and mostly just the finger tip. Yes, I wear vinyl gloves and no it won't transmit disease or infection from one bird to the next....they are all flock mates and share the same intestinal flora.

If I don't feel an egg, I mark that bird with a zip tie on the leg~usually the right leg. The next night I palpate them all again. Those with another egg are left unmarked, those without an egg still are left with their zip ties in place. Those that were previously unmarked but don't have an egg I'll make a decision.... Do they appear in good health and condition? Are the other signs for good laying in place such as nice red combs, loose moist vent, etc? Are they one of my tried and true hens? If all the answers to these questions are "yes", then I won't palpate that bird on the third night. I've found that if they don't have an egg that second night it could be that I just caught them on the wrong day but more often than not, they are not laying every day or every other day.

If any of those answers are a "no", then she will be marked with a zip tie on the opposite leg of those who are doomed to die and will be palpated a third night...if she has an egg, she's a keeper, if she doesn't, she gets benched. That third night all birds with zip ties are trussed and laid down in the deep litter to await the next morning's butchering. The third night check on the left tie bird isn't really necessary but sometimes I keep hoping that my favorite birds are salvageable...I've not had any that were after that second night's check. The third night is just for sheer hope.

I like keeping a layer flock for as long as they are productive and healthy...if they are older than 2 years and lay every day or every other day during peak laying season, then they get to stay in the flock. If they don't at least lay every other day during peak months of lay, they are gone.

 

[NYREDS]

Darn it! I don't know the post number....

Okay, okay...I'll tell it again but I'm just gonna get laughed at again.

This is the most complete explanation of the method...an earlier one wasn't quite as thorough but as this is the last time I'm going to talk about doing rectal exams on chickens, I'll put the entire messy business on the page.

I take each hen off the roost at night and gently insert a finger into her vent...if she is laying the next day you should be able to palpate an egg coming down.

No, it doesn't hurt them, it is only a part of your finger and mostly just the finger tip. Yes, I wear vinyl gloves and no it won't transmit disease or infection from one bird to the next....they are all flock mates and share the same intestinal flora.

If I don't feel an egg, I mark that bird with a zip tie on the leg~usually the right leg. The next night I palpate them all again. Those with another egg are left unmarked, those without an egg still are left with their zip ties in place. Those that were previously unmarked but don't have an egg I'll make a decision.... Do they appear in good health and condition? Are the other signs for good laying in place such as nice red combs, loose moist vent, etc? Are they one of my tried and true hens? If all the answers to these questions are "yes", then I won't palpate that bird on the third night. I've found that if they don't have an egg that second night it could be that I just caught them on the wrong day but more often than not, they are not laying every day or every other day.

If any of those answers are a "no", then she will be marked with a zip tie on the opposite leg of those who are doomed to die and will be palpated a third night...if she has an egg, she's a keeper, if she doesn't, she gets benched. That third night all birds with zip ties are trussed and laid down in the deep litter to await the next morning's butchering. The third night check on the left tie bird isn't really necessary but sometimes I keep hoping that my favorite birds are salvageable...I've not had any that were after that second night's check. The third night is just for sheer hope.

I like keeping a layer flock for as long as they are productive and healthy...if they are older than 2 years and lay every day or every other day during peak laying season, then they get to stay in the flock. If they don't at least lay every other day during peak months of lay, they are gone.

EWW!

 

[fowlman01]

EWW!

Sissy.....

w.

 

[furbabymum]

I agree...both are breeds I'd never own in the first place...at least, not after learning their true nature. I once got a couple of pups that were Newfie/Visla cross~which I agreed to take because I was hoping the Newfie would outweigh the Visla) and found they could not be trained off of chickens with the normal training methods, so I promptly removed the problem.

All my dogs are lab or lab mixes and most people think they won't guard nor will they bond with a flock and they will most definitely kill chickens~but they didn't and they don't. The one I have now will actually mourn like crazy if a chick dies and will carry it around in his mouth and keep trying to put it back in the coop with the others. I have to dispose of them where he can't go and bring them back because he will do this for days...endless pacing, whining, carrying a stinking, long-dead chick around in his mouth and keep trying to get me to take it, make it live, make it go back into the flock. Makes himself~and me~miserable.

Some breeds just don't have the nurturing nature that it takes to care for a prey species despite their predatory instincts...but it isn't always breed specific and the GP aren't the only dogs that can fill that bill. Many people on here are using mutts and non-typical livestock dogs to guard their flocks and it works wonderfully~and didn't cost them a dime or the acquisition of an additional dog. You only hear about the ones that go horribly wrong and it's usually dogs that have received absolutely no training around livestock and who live indoors all day, only to find a delightful new exercise toy outside that squeaks when you bite into it.

We have 4 very different breeds of dogs. I admit that the GP is our gaurd dog and so far hasn't seemed inclined to kill any of our livestock. We use the other 3 to hunt. Our St Bernard has the most incredible nose and flushes out prey animals quite easily. The weim and viszla catch them. So I had a post about how 27 of our chickens died. Our St Bernard had jumped out the window and because I was negligent in not closing the coop door, or house windows, or etc he got the chickens.

For us the dogs came long before the chickens and they will remain until they die. Our viszla is 12 years old and will probably die soon. Great dog, will be missed.

Anyway, crap happens. You muddle through life doing the best you can and crap still happens. I will never train the hunt out of 3 of our dogs but I can take precautions to ensure they do not have access to the chickens. It's a learning process. Don't condem all dogs as bad or ill trained. Each breed has it's own purpose. Rant over.

 

[NYREDS]

My Grandfather taught me to look for a variety of indicators to determine if a hen was laying: distance between the pubic bones beig one. In a hen that isn't laying or a pullet that hasn't started to lay the pubic bones will be nearly touching. In one that is producing regularly the pubic bones will be widely spaced with this space varying with the size of the bird. The relative softness of the abdomen is also an indicator. In a non-laying female the abdomen will be very firm while a hen in production will have a soft abdomen. Condition of the vent too is an indicator. A large moist vent indicates a bird in production while a small dry vent indicates one that is not. Tail condition can also be an indicator. If a hen has a perfectly formed tail she isn't spending much time in a nest. If her tail is rough with a number of broken feathers she's probably laying regularly. Combining these indicators should give a pretty good idea of who's laying & who's not. All without sticking your finger anywhere. I repeat, EWW! :-D

 

[Beekissed]

Sissy.

 

[holderh]

Hi agian! i have a few more questions for the old timers!...Some of these questions may be silly but still i dont know and I just love your responses!

1. I let my hens free range. sometimes they go to my neighbors yard (even though they have 40 acres on my property to run on LOL) My neighbors dont mind and they have told me they dont treat their yards with any kinds of poisions but on the off chance they had some type of poision, rat poision or fertilizer or anything like that in there yard and my hens ate it...if it didnt kill the hen could poisions like that be passed through to the egg and make us sick or worse?

2. How much layer feed do they actually need? I have 15 hens and i usually only go through one 50 pound bag of feed a month. However if i have to leave them in the pen (16x32) a few days i will fill up a feed pan for them. so at the most i go through 2- 50 pound bags a month. Also, i dont use a feeder most of the time i throw it on the ground. They all lay eggs great...most of the time they all lay daily.

3. I have 5 hens that were given to me about 6 months ago. They werent in the best of conditions. They had a lot of feathers missing and some were bald on the back. and the butt. They werent very well taken care off. When we got them off course i quarentined them from my original 10 hens, dusted them down with seven dust, gave them lots of food and protien. Since i have had them they have fattend up nicely and look good and healthy all but one. she still is bald on her back and butt. I do not have a rooster and i looked over them and didnt see anything that looked like lice. I posted this question in a thread a few days ago and some one said she may have lice or could be wating on a molt, since i posted this tho i have notcied about 3 more of my whitle leghorns who seem to be missing a few feathers around their vents and some of the feathers under their vents look matted up and some look to have been broken off. would that be due to lice or mites? How can you prevent Lice and mites in the first place? Do some people put something in the runs to use for dust baths? What do they use? They do dust bathe while free ranging...they usually use my flower beds or my garden spot.

4. I had a hen go broody. I bought some fertilized eggs to try and hatch out our own chicks. She sat on the eggs for the whole time but when they started hatching she started pecking them so i took them and now have them in a brooder. Now it seems though that she is going through a molt. her feathers are all falling out at the slightest touch. Does this sound like a molt and would it be normal for them to do this after being broody? All of my hens are 13 months old and this is the first time any of them has tried to molt to this extent.

Thanks so much for your help!