Chickens for 10-20 years or more? Pull up a rockin' chair and lay some wisdom on us!

[stonykill]

Curious....was this thing out in the daytime hours? It's a weasel, right?

yes, 7:20 am this morning. And yes it is a weasel. If there is one thing I have learned about predators it is that thaey don't keep the hours we like to think they do.

 

[Robert Blosl]

Bob

The Babcock division is now part of the ISA poultry genetics group in Europe. Very interesting, to me, your personal connection to the beginning of that line.

The commercial brown hen is capable of 310 eggs, with some reporting 320-325 their pullet year. The debate of using these commercial birds and flipping the flock every year, or at most, two years of laying versus the slower, but steady approach is still an ongoing discussion. Not discussed among the commercial guys,(those guys have made up their minds long ago) but among small holders who keep a few dozen commercial hens for eggs.

I've been keeping strict charts and accounts for the past three years to better judge for myself concerning the economics. One problem for me has been this. To what shall I compare the costs factors? Other large fowl, such as Rocks or Reds, but also from hatchery stock? Those are also "production" oriented in breeding, it seems to me, and the risk of reproductive issues in the hen's out years seems equally difficult. We've not been thrilled with our hatchery rocks, reds, sussex, etc.

Our recent addition of KathyinMo batch of Barred Rocks will give us a truer comparison, in about a year. As I've written you, Bob, I'm still on a search for White Rocks from a good I line as well.

I missed your comment about the old strain of white rock large fowl. I was told yesterday that someone who lives about 25 miles from me has some of my old white rock large fowl. He got them from a friend who I gave some extras to about seven years ago. I was shocked so I am going to hunt him down and see his birds. We will have to see if we can get you some chicks next spring I got five people started this year so this will keep this 50 year old line going. bob

 

[Achickenwrangler#1]

Looking at that weasel, stonykil,it's easy to see how they can fit into the smallest places, and those teeth can easy cut a throat. We have black mink, but they no longer come near the house, as my dog Lucy likes to eat what she finds,I personally don't care or trust cats outside, since they eat too many other wild things. We've had to shoot feral cats, and even if they might not kill a chicken, they'll go for anything smaller and chase them to death.
I have to say I'm proud of my oagf as yesterday I saw my roos defend the flock against the kids chihauhau (it's prob 15 lbs and mixed with terrier I think) it escaped and went nuts chasing the flock and the two roos did go forward, not really attacking but drawing fire, then flying into the maple tree, a good twenty five foot arch-impressive for me.
The hardest thing to do is protect your chickens, everything wants to eat them, the worst thing I can do for them is confine them where they can't get away...I don't worry about hawks as after loosing a few the chickens have learned to look out, and they hide immediately when they hear their call before I even see the hawk, my chickens are gone.I won't shoot one, or let anyone one else either...they are so many rabbits and other prey. In that way, my oagf are well suited for life in the mountains, some used to refuse the coop and roosted in trees,...until an owl snatched one and taught them it's not safe they are first in at night. I hate crows..they are cannibles that eat chicks and songbirds and anything else that moves or doesn't.
I am curious when you said you rescued Sumatra from their island? Are thee sure they needed attention? People here don't often build coops for theirs, and think it's where chickens live...in trees. Just saying, cultural differences and all, it's probably why chickens hatch so many in a clutch.
I do want to keep chickens, and I want to live in balance with the country I moved to...it's not farm land, it's rugged hunting land, I did enough damage bringing in the power lines, but I still heat only with wood cut from my property. .maybe some days I'll add another system for the pure luxury of a warm house in the morning,
Well I've rambled more than enough, and I don't mean to offend, yet my conscious bristled a little and so, there it is.

 

[DBrewer]

Who says I don't like to hold, coddle or pet my chickens?

Of course I like to!!! All girls like soft, pretty things and my chickens are certainly pretty and their feathers just feel like silk. They also follow me around sometimes like moochy puppies and that appeals to a woman's heart. But you know what? I love the fact that they are animals in all their natural being and I really hate to inflict my human neediness for love onto their lives and change their natural instincts.

My husbandry style is geared towards these birds developing natural health and living a more normal chicken life out on the pasture...that, to me, is the reason they were placed on this Earth. Not to be contained in a box or cage, not to be primped, fluffed, coddled into something other than what they truly are and to live a great life,have a quick death and to be purposed for food, as is their destiny. It would be easy to let my girly side kick in and snuggle a chicken when the need hits me but that's why God made my kids and family, the dogs, the cat....for all those love expressions.

I need my chickens to be a little wild, a little rough and a little independent in order to allow them freedom out on range...they need to have that jumpy attitude that keeps them wary of preds in order to free range successfully...they will not develop that if they are lap chickens~this I know without a doubt. So, to fulfill their purpose, to live a great life, to be all the chicken they can be~they simply must stay off my lap and out of my arms. When gentleness and care are actually needed, it's there. When they need calm leadership and dependable care, it's there. When they need to feel safe, it's there. When they don't need any of those things~which is most of the time because they are pretty self-sustaining(by their natural design and by my intentions)~they are free to just BE.

To me, that is the most pure form of love I can give my animals...just letting them BE what they want to be without too much of my interference. What more could any of us ask? Yeah, it would be easy to give into my need to mother things but is that love? Nope. That's just me trying to remake a chicken into something it really isn't.

When I walk out into that yard, do you know who follows my every step? ALL the livestock and pets...they walk behind and around me, sit when I sit, stand when I stand and await to see what I will do next. I like to imagine they appreciate my leadership and stewardship for them, but who knows? Could be they are just wanting to BE right along side me while I am simply being.

Trust me...girly is something I have in spades when it really counts! I cry at movies, mother everything in a 10 mile radius and tell everyone how much I love them each and every time I have the opportunity. I'm a nurse, a massage therapist, a mother, a gardener, an artist and a lover of all things/people....I am a natural born nurturer. But I put it where it's most needed and chickens just do not need that kind of nurturing.

Sorry...feeling very verbose today and kind of...well..girly and emotional.

If you ever run for President, you have my vote. lol This animal wants to be left alone to just BE as well. lol

 

[DBrewer]

I have been studying coop designs on the site recently. I already have what was supposed to be a chicken tractor, but then became too heavy to move around a lot, so I am planning to build a larger structure. I'm going to have a building with a permanent run, so I was wondering about fencing. I see some folks using hardware cloth and others using regular chain link fence. Obviously the holes are bigger in chain link. I'd like to get some OT's opinions on whether one or the other is a better choice.

Thanks.

 

[stonykill]

Looking at that weasel, stonykil,it's easy to see how they can fit into the smallest places, and those teeth can easy cut a throat. We have black mink, but they no longer come near the house, as my dog Lucy likes to eat what she finds,I personally don't care or trust cats outside, since they eat too many other wild things. We've had to shoot feral cats, and even if they might not kill a chicken, they'll go for anything smaller and chase them to death. I have to say I'm proud of my oagf as yesterday I saw my roos defend the flock against the kids chihauhau (it's prob 15 lbs and mixed with terrier I think) it escaped and went nuts chasing the flock and the two roos did go forward, not really attacking but drawing fire, then flying into the maple tree, a good twenty five foot arch-impressive for me. The hardest thing to do is protect your chickens, everything wants to eat them, the worst thing I can do for them is confine them where they can't get away...I don't worry about hawks as after loosing a few the chickens have learned to look out, and they hide immediately when they hear their call before I even see the hawk, my chickens are gone.I won't shoot one, or let anyone one else either...they are so many rabbits and other prey. In that way, my oagf are well suited for life in the mountains, some used to refuse the coop and roosted in trees,...until an owl snatched one and taught them it's not safe they are first in at night. I hate crows..they are cannibles that eat chicks and songbirds and anything else that moves or doesn't. I am curious when you said you rescued Sumatra from their island? Are thee sure they needed attention? People here don't often build coops for theirs, and think it's where chickens live...in trees. Just saying, cultural differences and all, it's probably why chickens hatch so many in a clutch. I do want to keep chickens, and I want to live in balance with the country I moved to...it's not farm land, it's rugged hunting land, I did enough damage bringing in the power lines, but I still heat only with wood cut from my property. .maybe some days I'll add another system for the pure luxury of a warm house in the morning, Well I've rambled more than enough, and I don't mean to offend, yet my conscious bristled a little and so, there it is.

I don't recall saying I rescued them from an island. I rescued them from a local Village where they were going to be trapped, hunted, poisoned or otherwise killed.

last year I lost 9 chickens in one coop in 1 night from a weasel who found a tiny hole to squeeze thru.

 

[seamsewnice]

This is one of those things where you may never find out just what is going on. One has to look at all the variables and there are probably more than we can ever know. It doesn't sound genetic as I'm sure all these birds didn't descend from the same genetics, did they? If they did, that might be the factor...some genetic anomaly that involves some kind of organ system failure.

It doesn't sound like any disease I have ever heard of and the symptoms seem to be inconsistent, with some birds dying quickly, some lingering for a long time before symptoms appear.

I'm sure you aren't missing anything on nutrition...it would have to be pretty darn severe malnutrition to bring on this range of symptoms and fatality. Niacin deficiency has a lot of the symptoms you describe.

What I would be looking at, if this were my flock, is a metal toxicity or something similar. I'd be looking for some kind of thing in their environment or something they are ingesting that would affect their joints, nerves and causes such a wasting away with the accompanying feather loss. They sound as if they are slowly being poisoned in some manner and the males are having a harder time eliminating this toxin from their bodies, thus it affects them more.

If I were you and you could afford it, you might want to send one for a necropsy or even do blood testing on your living birds to see if they can detect any obvious poisons. The reason I suggest metal toxicity is because it can really affect nerve conduction, can settle into joint tissue, can affect circulation to extremities and even cause the hair loss and wasting away that happens when the kidneys are affected by the metals.

I've never dealt with poultry illnesses but there are quite a few very knowledgeable people out there who have and have researched them....anyone care to weigh in on this?

Beekissed, Thanks for your reply, some real thoughts to consider. Necropsy on the schedule and hopefully it will give some incite to some of the losses I have had. Unfortunately, when it was first suggested to me by a Michigan State University vet the price seemed out of the question. After losing so many of my birds it seems like I really can't afford not to do it.

My birds are all hatchery stock except for one roo which is what many of my birds that I have hatched out have been related to. I haven't hatched out more than maybe a dozen over the passed year, most of them mixed with hatchery stock.

As for the metal poisoning, it is an interesting thought. I use plastic feeders and waters along with an extra rubber waterer, otherwise can't think of anything that would expose them to metal in that coop unless it might be the old paint on the coop. I house them in a coop which had chickens in over 50 years ago but has been vacant since. Not sure but the same house might have been used since the late 1800's for chickens, with some renovations. Whatever they have, I suppose could be the reason my parents decided not to have chickens any longer in the (late 1950's).

As far as nutrition goes they get feed a wide variety of foods and I can't imagine that their could be anything amiss there. They get primarly ground food, some pellets, and all sorts of additional treats.

I also like your thought of having a blood test done to determine obvious poisons, I suppose the water could have something in it that could be causing this.

After I talked to the vet at MSU last year when I ordered new birds with his suggestion I had them vaccinated. I also decided not to mix the birds in the same housing. I have had fewer loses with the new batch of birds and they are producing eggs at a much higher rate. In that flock since they were put in their housing they had one get the paralizes but recovered, and this spring one just came down with whatever but was bad enough I had her put down after a day of suffering. It seems to affect birds especially in the spring and fall.

Certainly my venture with chickens has been discouraging to say the least. I am hoping to find some answers with the tests you have suggested. Thanks again for your in put.

 

[Fred's Hens]

I missed your comment about the old strain of white rock large fowl. I was told yesterday that someone who lives about 25 miles from me has some of my old white rock large fowl. He got them from a friend who I gave some extras to about seven years ago. I was shocked so I am going to hunt him down and see his birds. We will have to see if we can get you some chicks next spring I got five people started this year so this will keep this 50 year old line going. bob

Bob, it will be a long haul, locating and breeding those heritage White Rocks. I'd be pleased to pass some time with just some half-way-decent White Rocks. Have you ever seen Ideal's hatchery birds? I wouldn't have a clue as to which hatchery might even have a respectable hatchery quality WR.

 

[galanie]

  thankfully we have a 15 lb Maine Coon mix who likes to hunt. This was stalking a small blue Sumatra hen this morning. William the Maine coon mix took care of it for me!

   outdoor cats are a must if your chickens free range.

    

Good Kitty!! I miss my Maine Coon so much. LOVE them.

 

[Arielle]

Quote: I'm sorry you are struggling with long term problems in your flock. I just went thru paralysis, so some degree, in my chicks. In hind sight, I do think the cause was nutritional. Even though they had high quality feed in front of them, they scratched in the shavings and ate the tiny specks of wood. Depite grit they were a bit off, and a few lay on their sides legs useless and unable to get around. THe really weird part was if I held the bird for food or water it would eat and drink. I marked the 4 that were the worst, if for some reason the future reveals more information.

Thiamine deficiency has similar symptoms. SO I'm wondering if it is fall and spring, could they be eating something that messes with the overall function. Many micronutrients need to be supplemented. I live in an area too low in selenium, so feed must be supplemented, especialyy in my broodmares and foals. I also noticed it is added into the sheep feed from a local mill. I'm sorry I don't know if this applies to you, low Se is a regional thing, generally in the Northeast US and other areas of the US.

Hope you get the situation resolved.